ICEBOX SESSIONS

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________Rich: I mean, I shouldn't have been on that route. It's kinda like one of those things that if like somebody said, you gotta do this or you die saying, you know, you're like, you'll find a way. You know what I mean? And that's kind of how I felt. Sean: This is what it's like climbing with Rich Lappe. Hey everybody. Welcome to the very first Icebox Sessions podcast. My name is Sean Cassidy and we are in conversation with Nova Scotia Rock Climbers. This episode is sponsored by Seven Bays Bouldering, and today's guest is my good friend and long time. I'm climbing partner Rich Lappe. Rich grew up on a farm in Picto County and has been climbing for over 20 years now. We talk about some of his favorite Boulder problems, his elite training methods and classic roots that nobody has ever heard of. I'm glad you're here listening. Let's jump in with Rich and the Icebox. You've been here before, I think Rich: a few times. Yeah. Used to be pretty regular actually. Sean: How did you get into climbing? Rich: Well, I remember the first time I was introduced to climbing, but it was in the gym right after high school. And I think like coming out of high school, I had all these things I had kind of like seen in magazines, like National Geographic that I wanted to do as like this coming of age that I like, you know, I wanted to go skydiving. I wanted to scuba dive and I think probably somewhere in there was like climb a mountain or something. Right, Sean: right. Check. You had a bucket list? Rich: Yeah, kind of of like. You know, farm Boy gets, you know, free and is able to roam the world or, and like have new experiences kind of list. And, um, anyway, I was on exchange program and living in pba, uh, area in Ontario and I heard, uh, of a climbing gym on the local military base. So I started going there. And, uh, climbing there like once a week. I think I only got there maybe half a dozen times, but I kind of fell in love with it right away. My first kind of outdoor experience is when I was tree planting out in BC and, uh, it was, uh, the fall I think. And I was based out of, uh, Whistler at the time actually on this crew. And, um, this older guy named Pete, he took me over for the day. We went up and climbed some of the roots, uh, around Whistler. And, uh, yeah, that was kind of a, a first real, real experience out, out on the rock. Sean: So how many years is that? Rich: Roughly? Over 20 to remember? Yeah, over 20. Sean: You getting tired of climbing it? Rich: Uh, it definitely has waxed and waned in terms of my interest, but I think that also like reflects. If I'm getting the opportunity to do it or not. Like when I have the opportunity to do it, I kind of always rediscover it. But sometimes just with everything going on in life, like it's kind of like surfing. I can go six months without surfing, then I kind of forget about it. Sean: Yeah, I know. I find that strange, like Rich: you've said that to me before. I haven't Sean: even noticed. I haven't checked. Yeah. Like, dude, you're like 10 minutes, five Rich: minutes from the Sean: break. Rich: Yeah, and and certainly my relationship to it has changed, but I'd say I, I mean it's kind of like, so. Ingrained as part of me now that like, I'm not looking to stop it. I don't think I can, like, I'm just kind of intrigued by it all the time and different aspects of it. So Sean: I know the feeling. Yeah. We've talked about this before. Yeah. It's hard to let it go. Rich: Yeah. Like in some ways your whole community or you see how your life has been structured around the connections you've made with climbing and it's such a outlet for, you know, time alone, time with friends. Mm-hmm. Kind of exploration, adventure. Uh, visiting places that you know really well that have like some meaning to you. So there's all those aspects of it. Sean: Yeah. Rich: Yeah. Sean: Um, what do you get out of climbing that's maybe different than surfing? Or is it very similar? Rich: Yeah. I mean, they both can be individual sports, you know? Mm-hmm. But haven't, you're Sean: not a team player? Uh, Rich: I used to play team sports, but, uh, yeah, it's nice to kind of explore something on your own pace and just, you know, inter interact with like, whatever the natural environment and Yeah. You know, they both have that to kind of offer, um, the exploration side, you know, um, kind of similar communities at times, but also very different to others. Mm-hmm. Like overall, I'd say, like I've. Probably develop more like friendships through climbing. And I think it's because of the partnership base that you, you're reliant on largely. Oh yeah. Yeah. Sean: Bit more social than the Yeah. The cold shoulders in the water sometimes. Rich: Well, surfing, I mean, I know a lot of people through surfing and a lot of good friends and, but yeah, it's a little, little bit different feel. I mean, that could be changing, but you're not, like when you're in the water, you're not de dependent on somebody else to the same degree as when you're going climbing as a partnership. Mm-hmm. You know, you're. It kind of forces you to kind of learn about that person, um, a little bit differently? I think so. Sean: Here, here's a funny thing that I've thought of over the years. I don't know if we talked about it, but I've found the partnership that you have with someone doing a tra climbing, but where you're someone's leading and then someone's falling, picking out the gear. Mm-hmm. That's, to me, a closer relationship than sport climbing is. Mm-hmm. And I found it pretty odd when, when you go to sport climbing area or you go sport climbing with people. Yeah. And sometimes it would just be, you know, rich is gonna do his route. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And then he wraps down, pulls the draws, and Sean's, Sean's left to figure out what he wants to do. Absolutely. You know, you know what's so much more of a Yeah, well, me, a me thing, I guess. Yeah. It feels like, and I remember feeling sad about that. Rich: Yeah, I agree. When you do a tra route. You're often kind of doing it together as to one person has to be leading it, but it's like, yeah, it's, Sean: and sometimes it's harder to, to second it. Rich: Yeah. I mean, cleaning the gear and, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And certainly like a multi pitch is like that, you know, even more so any style too. Right. Sean: So Rich: yeah. Sports stuff. Sean: Yeah. Um, yeah. Jumping to multi-pitch sport climbing. Um, you've done a fair bit of traveling and I'm thinking of re o Chico. Mm-hmm. Where I want to go. Tell us about some of your adventures there. You did a, uh, what's that route? Kind of a classic five 12? Yeah. Rich: Um, El Sandro lso. El Sandro. Yeah. Sean: Luso. Cool. Rich: Um, well I've been there twice, so not a ton. But, um, the first time was back in, uh. It was 2000 actually. Uh, I was kind of in between work contracts and school. Uh, and I ended up taking a bus down actually from, from New New Brunswick as one does all, all the way down to Mexico, because I heard there's this good deal, uh, through Greyhound where it's like nine $99 anywhere in North America. Yeah. So yeah. Four or five days on a bus. That was, uh, an interesting adventure, kind of cultural experience in and of itself. Yeah. Going through different parts of states, some of your Sean: closest friends are from that bus. Yeah, I don't know if I made too Rich: many friends on that class. I kind of kept to myself Keep yourself. Yeah. Sean: Yeah. Don't look anybody in the eye. Rich: Well, yeah. Yeah, there's, I did get pickpocketed actually. Ooh, yeah. Uh, luckily I had my passport, but I lost my credit cards and a bunch of cash and stuff like that. Oh, shit. Yeah. It was experience. Anyway, so I. I made it down to Mexico and I had about a month and a bit there and, uh, you know, I went down by myself, but I knew that there were other people going down that, um, that I knew and had climbed with before that were from out west. So, okay. After I'd been there for a week, I kind of hooked up with the, um, Canmore crew and my good buddy Pete Thurlow at the time. Of course, yeah. Pete and our, uh, communal friend, uh, Nick and, and a bunch of others that were down there and, and Pete and I ended up. Climbing a ton together down there and did some really awesome route and, um, traveled a little bit else where in Mexico climbing, like we went to El Alto back when it wasn't really developed and camped out there. Oh, right, Speaker 3: right. Rich: For about a week. Uh, and we also went surfing and had a great adventure. Uh, but anyway, uh, speaking of El Sandero, like I woke up every morning and stared at the big, you know, the big massive there. And like El Sandero is a very prominent line, kind of draws your attention. I. Remember kind of daydreaming about like that's a route, you know, just the physical look of it was very striking and kind of. Drew me. So it was something that I definitely registered in my mind as, you know, something to dream about. And then, Ooh, that was on Sean: your first trip? Yes. Which planted the seed for a later. Oh, okay. Gotcha. Yeah, Rich: and we had done a route next to it called, uh, land of the Free, which was the, probably the highlight of that time. And I was. You know, I've only been climbing a few years at that time, so it was like kind of at a, um, a big experience doing that route. At the time, it was just like a hard 11 or EA 12, I don't know, 10 plus pitches or something, but kind of felt somewhat remote at the time and not. Yeah, it just felt like a good experience and adventure. But, uh, yeah, anyway, fast forward, I don't know how long it was later, maybe 10, 15 years. But, uh, me and my buddy, um, uh, Kenny, also from Newfoundland. Yeah. Like Pete, Sean: Kenny. AK, Rich: yeah. Yeah. Kenny Tuuk. We, uh, we ended up going down there to give it a go. We had like a two week trip and, uh, we ended up getting up it, uh, in, in a couple days. Didn't send it free. Uh. Two. Uh, Kenny actually sent a lot of it free, like on site, so Yeah, he Sean: slept on, on the way up. Rich: Yeah. There's, um, halfway up is like. Uh, there's a ledge at fi at five pitches up, but all those pitches are like over 50 meters, so you're, you're almost at about halfway up the route and there's a good ledge. So, yeah, I think they may all be five 12 stacked on top of each other up to this ledge. So that's kind of a big day by the time you haul your stuff. So we, we camped out there and. Played some chess and drank some wine, and, uh, ended up calling Pete actually and talking to him. Oh, okay. Uh, so that was fun looking for beta or what? Oh no, just to shoot the shit. I think, uh, yeah, I mean this is probably, you know, 15 years after. Pete and I had been there. Sean: Oh, crazy. Rich: Yeah, no, it would've been, uh, and then yeah, uh, you know, finished the next day and wrapped down. So it, it was fun to get back there. It's a beautiful line, you know, just again, uh, you know, it's just kind of this striking prowl up the middle of the, the formation, so that, that was, that was pretty cool to be able to go and touch it. It, and it's interesting. Like when things strike you, like you get inspired by something and it's often a photo. I found like photos from old mags would be really inspiring. You know, they kind of make you want to travel to an area. I remember like the inspiration for wanting to check out the, the desert were certainly like inspired probably by like old Jim Thornburg photos or something, you know, that type of thing. Cool. Photos in guidebooks have a big influence that way. Like if it's a cool shot, you know, it kind of makes you. Get drawn to that. Yeah. But, but certainly I can, you know, have been really drawn to roots just aesthetically that I knew nothing about. But you walk by and you're like, all of a sudden it just strikes you in some way. You know, even if it's not a classic route in somebody else's mind, it may be in your mind, Sean: is that the motivation for you? Like I've heard you say a number of times, like you don't really like starred ratings and guidebooks. Rich: Yeah, Sean: I, what's your, what's your thoughts on that? Rich: Well, they're inherently subjective and I think they have a place, and I, I wouldn't say I don't like them in the sense that I use them and I, you know, you go to a new area and you're gonna kind of rely on them. But I think they're also limiting. So it's kinda like this twofold thing where, you know, it draws people to certain areas and then other things get ignored. And so, you know, and so you tend to go to the roots, you know, that. Um, are more traveled. They have more chalk. Yeah. They may have more people. Uh, they may be soft for the grade things that we all kind of like, but ultimately that's safe and it's gonna be Sean: a good tech. Yeah. Rich: They may not give you the experience that is the most memorable. Right. And they may not be the most unique, you know, they could be, they got super, you know, quality roots, but there's other things because of their popularity that also detract from them. So, yeah. Yeah. It's like I have Sean: the smell of feces. Rich: Yeah. I, I don't know. It is a bit limiting. I just think you have to be careful and you have to kind of, like you're saying, ideally, if you can keep. You know, an open mind in terms of what actually, you know, when you're, when you're on at a site, at a crag, keep an open mind in terms of what, what you find interesting looking. Yeah. You know, and try not to maybe just follow the guidebook. Sean: Yeah. It's weird. What are your thoughts on, um, grades? Sometimes I feel like you limit yourself by thinking the grade means something. Or that it's concrete. Rich: Yeah. I know my hardest climbs have sometimes been when I didn't know the grades, like Boulder problems in particular. You just try it and you kinda let go of the expectations. Yeah. And so yeah, I mean it's like this necessary evil in a way, grades, but it's also kind of the draw of doing first ASC sense. Yeah, I was just gonna say, you get to, I mean, yeah, nobody's told you what it is and what it is, and you're just exploring. Yeah. And having a more of an open mind and yeah, that's. Sean: So you've put, you've put up a number of new roots and kind of enjoyed that experience of discovery and cleaning and scrubbing and sometimes bolting. Yeah. Any favorite routes that you've put up that other people should know about? Um, so that they can enjoy it? I mean, Rich: yeah. I mean, I think, I think a lot of the roots I put up are like worth doing. Not all of them get. Much attention. I think a bunch of them probably haven't seen repeat a sense, but it might, you know, be a reflection of some of the things we're talking about. You know, like maybe they don't subscribe to kind of what people have accepted as being, you know, a standard quality route at that time, at that time. Um, but I guess a couple roots that I've done recently that I do think are a good quality that. Would kind of, you know, by most people's standards be still good quality, um, in that they're like, it sounds like you have low standards. They're, they're like typical, like fully bolted roots. Yeah, yeah. You know, with good movement. Um. A consistent movement. Interesting. Cruxes, cool positioning. Like what's Sean: this, what's this route? Rich: Well, no, like the two, two roots I did at, uh, altar last year. I think those are quality roots, like by anybody's standards, like relative to other roots in Nova Scotia. Those are, I think, route we should promote Sean: those. I, I, uh, yeah. When you were, when you were developing those, I was playing on. One of them on a top rope or we No, you were blaming me. I can't remember. Um, or maybe I, no, I was solo top rope and anyways, it was the move, the movement was amazing. And you know, I'm kind of, I'm gonna blame my height for a section. I couldn't quite get through it for the face climb. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a good reach. But it's absolutely gorgeous. Rich: Oh yeah, it's beautiful rock. I mean, it's so What's that? What's that one called? Uh oh, Gibraltar Stretch. Oh, yes. Yeah, that's a good one. Yes, that's a good one. But the root next to it, the ette, like, I don't know which one's better, but they're both very different, but they're both in terms of Yeah, they're equal, I think. Nice. You played on the ette too, didn't you? Sean: Uh, very briefly. Yeah. That's a cool one. Um, and that the, the corner. Oh yeah, that's Gibralter straight. Yeah, there you go. There. Which I have not climbed yet. Rich: That's an awesome route too. Very different style. Yeah, totally. That's a classic I think that doesn't get cl climbed. Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah. Sean: Any other routes that are favorites of yours in the province that maybe you didn't necessarily put up or that you would recommend for people to, to have a go and have an experience on? Rich: Oh man, without dying, of course. Yeah, no, I mean there's, there's tons of good ones. Uh, hard to know where to start, but I mean, unfortunately lost poise is closed, but you know, Sean: that, that, you know, Rich: is a pretty by anywhere in the world. I think that's a good route. Yeah. So I mean, Sean: that was a route that Sean Willett put up, probably early nineties at a place called Neverland. On Paces Lake, but unfortunately it's, it's on private land and yeah, it's close to climbing. Um, and, you know, we're all respecting that. But it was a, yeah, it was a great line. Rich: Yeah, it's a great loss. Yeah. Sean: Yeah. It had a glued, glued on holds, well, not, not new holds reinforced, but reinforced, uh, Zika holds, which I thought was pretty neat. Pretty neat. Yeah. 'cause it was like, you know, Sean Willett put that root up and tons of. Awesome lines. Like I love, I love that guy's roots. Yeah. But he was, he was kind of pushing beyond what was the standard approach back in those days, which was largely full on tra or maybe you banging a pin and he was like bolting stuff, which was, you know, an next step. And then adding glue to some holes, which was like, oh my God. Rich: But he was doing it all. He was also putting a party, he was doing everything, run out t tra roots or you know, clean T trad roots. And he would, yeah, yeah. Yeah. That's, I, yeah, I respect that about him. It wasn't like a one style thing. It was like, Sean: no, he could do everything. And you know, I'm hoping to get a chance to chat with him on one of these. Oh, that, that'd be podcasts. Yeah. That'd be awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I love, yeah. I'm still climbing his roots, you know. Oh, decades. Oh, man. I probably, I've definitely climbed him more than he has. Oh, it was, Rich: he, he had huge contributions to the, the climbing here. Yeah. Yeah. Sean: Amazing. So you didn't, okay, so, um, lost Boys, but that's out of, out of circulation. Oh, okay. What would you recommend that people can actually get on? Rich: Um, well, Dr. Funkenstein that you put up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a pretty awesome route. Cool. Yeah, I think that's really good. And you know, the one right next to it. PhD, you know, a lot of the things that Columbus, I think are quality. They don't have to be like on the harder end, but just, you know, they're fun, good gear. I can't remember the names of most of them, you know? Yeah, yeah. Um, what are some other ones? Oh, you know what? An area that I've only been there a couple times with you is, um, Shiprock. Oh, Sean: yeah. Rich: Uh, comfortably numb and, yeah. Um, uncomfortable Bum, Sean: those types wonderful names. Those roots, when I got on them, ke Hall Keel. Hall Keel was one of my favorite. Rich: Yeah. They still seem like some of the best roots in the province, like in terms of just quality rock and movement and good gear and Sean: those roots, they didn't really need any cleaning whatsoever. Yeah, they're right on the coast battered by waves and salt. And those are, those are good ones. Rich: Oh yeah. They, I, yeah. I love those roots, those sinker like cracks with it just open up in the back for, you know, Sean: well the, I've told you the story, but, um, comfortably numb. Yeah, that, that was I think, the first route that was led there. And Bonnie and I were on a kayak trip. It was a foggy day, and I had, I had all my gear and I had to, I wanted to climb something on Shiprock, so outta the boat, you know, you start from lamb, but I got, got the gear moving and then first 15 feet of the route, I got two locker finger locks. Yeah. And, and both hands went numb. Not the hands, but my fingers went totally numb. And it was like they stayed numb for months. Rich: Did you pinch the nerves because Yeah, yeah. Yeah, because the jams were so good. Yeah. Yeah. Sean: They're so good. Rich: I, I, I can like picture the holes we're really selling track you talking about, because they, they narrow the constricts, it's like a triangle that opens up and Oh yeah. You can get a like Yeah. Something that you can cut your feet on and you'd be fine. And there's Sean: one, I remember one hold. There's kind of a triangular, so, so this face is like, it's a very sheer, it's basically vertical, very smooth face, a little bit of, of, uh, friction on it, but it's like a fault, fault line or something. It's just a nice cut. And then these holds, these cracks holds are, go directly into the cliff. And there's a loose little rock. It's like a triangular little piece that you can slot in and out of the face. Mm-hmm. It doesn't pull out, it's solid, but you, you can actually pull it out. Like an inch. Yeah, like an inch. Yeah. Just to get the right foothold. Yeah. On it. Do you remember using that? Oh, well, yeah. I Rich: do know you talked about it. I don't know if I knew how to use it the right way, but I think you pointed out afterwards that it's like a secret foot. Yeah. Like you slide it out, you use it and then you can kick it back in. Yeah. Yeah. That was pretty funny. Sean: What about, I'm curious about training. Hmm. And, well, yeah, what, what are your thoughts on training? How do you approach kind of keeping, keeping your game up for climbing roots or, or even adventures when you go traveling? Rich: I don't know how to train. I tried to dabble in it at times. Yeah. Like I've hang boarded and, uh. Actually, the one time I trained was leading up to the second Mexico trip, and I did a lot of traverses and I also hang board, and it was actually the only time I did anything that was structured. Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Rich: Um, that followed like progression, adding time and weight and things like that. So that was, you know, did you Sean: felt better as a result? Like you saw saw gains? Rich: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think so. Um, it was over 10 years ago and I, I can't say I've ever trained since really. But I have done some hang boarding. Yeah, I not the right Sean: kind to ask about treat. I know. Which is kind of funny. Yeah. We're we're both equally, uh, ignorant on the subject. Yeah. Although you did, you got me hang boarding. A little bit over. Did I, uh, like two winters ago you were leading up to a trip to France, I think. Oh, that's right. Right. Yep. And then who did you Rich: do the trip with? Uh, Matt Walker. Yeah, Matt Sean: Walker. And so you had the three of it, you signed me up to be part of this like Yeah. Hang board thing and I, I did it. That's true. I did it probably like six or seven times. Rich: So I'm hesitant to call it training in a sense because like. It was the goal there was just to motivate us to do something. You know what I mean? So it didn't like when I think training, I think it's gotta be like, have some progression, have a goal. Be somewhat measurable, like it was. This is basically like you gotta hang off something and do a food pullups each week or else you're gonna owe beer. Because it was, there was a beer calculator, right? So if, if you missed a session and I did a session, I got a beer. So that, yeah. I think I Sean: owed you a lot of beer after that. I don't know if I paid up on that though. Rich: That's right. Matt did too. Matt paid up though. He Oh, did he? He paid up on, on the trip. Yeah, actually I think he bought me a nice meal and a few beers as a food. We'll call it even after this or something. Sean: So, yeah. And part of the reason I was asking about training is, and what impresses me about you is that oftentimes you don't have enough time to train or climb much, but you're always game to go. Tackle some big adventure, like, you know, go going to the Verdun on that trip you did with math. Yeah. You did a bit of hang boarding, but you hadn't done much climbing. And those are pretty big, probably pretty scary roots. And you're, you've done that a few places, I find you just, I'm gonna go up the rainbow wall. I didn't or try it. I didn't do that. Well, you went, you went, uh, where'd you go now? My eyes are bigger than my, uh oh, you looked at it and you ran away. Rich: Um, yeah. No thanks man. Uh, yeah. I don't know, like I wouldn't want. Uh, lack of, you know, getting out regularly and feeling good to be a reason to not go, kind of try something. Yeah, right. I feel like a lot of climbing, like when you develop a base, you can pull off more than you might otherwise think you can if you're in the right head space. And that's, uh, you know, I struggled with this recently too, 'cause I, you know, if you're not climbing and then you try to go do something, you're probably not gonna be confident, you know? And I noticed that, say on the last trip I did, uh, in November. Um, with my buddy Ira, like, uh, you know, still climbed Okay, but like hesitant a little bit. Mm-hmm. Whatever. So I, I see often like the training that I do, like hanging off the hang board or, you know, whatever you can do, it's like. Yeah. As much as the physical, I think it gets you more mentally prepared. Like, you know, you, you have been doing what you can to be get ready. Yeah. You know, even if that might be a hang board session every few days, like if that's all you can fit in 'cause of other commitments. You've done everything you can, you know, you're, you can feel, you can still feel that, you know, I don't know what the gains are physically from doing like. You know, six handboard, uh, handboard sessions in a month. Sean: But, but probably negative. Negative, I know, Rich: but mentally I think it still has like some effect, you know, on, on your confidence. Um, I, Sean: I love that. I, I haven't really, uh, thought of it like that, but I think, I think you're bang on. It's like you kind of clear out the cobwebs and remember that you can do this stuff. Because I find like every season I'm like, oh, I haven't climbed in ages. You know, I gotta get used to placing gear and all that. But I mean, it comes back really quickly, way more quick than you fear it will, and you just kind of push the boat out and see what you can do. I think part of that for you too, like you're, you won an adventure it seems like. Mm. You know, so that's not gonna stop you where you're not a hundred percent prepared. Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Sean: Whereas a lot of times, I, I'm a little bit more cautious, like a, oh, I'm not gonna try that today, but. You know, I've seen you try some stuff and perhaps you shouldn't. Rich: I, I think I'm pretty cautious, you know? Yeah. Being a dad and everything, but Sean: Yeah. Rich: Yeah, yeah. Um, yeah. More so now than like. You know, in the twenties. But that's, I think that's pretty common. Wisdom. Wisdom. Probably less testosterone, Sean: broken body. Yeah. Rich: Yeah. All those things. Sean: Any, uh, any scary experiences that you've had climbing over the years that stick in your mind? Rich: Um, yeah. I mean, nothing kind of what went over. Over the top really. But yeah, I've been gripped lots of times. Like I remember one of the first times I, I met you. Maybe you're remembering this. I do Sean: remember. I think I remembered you. Okay. Rich: All right. Well, but what I remember is, uh, I got to go climb with, uh, Steve Punchin for, uh, yeah, a couple seasons, another legend. Oh, legend. Big bold, bold roots. Yeah. Steve's great. Yeah. Put up a lot of roots and yeah, really talented climber. But anyway, so I was a newbie and uh, somehow I lucked into being able to go out with Steve and yeah, we came, became kind of pseudo partners for. You know, a season at least. And, uh, anyways, Steve would kind of pick the day and I was just kind of along for the ride, jump in his car, whatever. And so he took me out to first face. I can't remember if it's my first time there or not, but, um, it was, I remember being, it was a cold day. It was probably late October or something, maybe it was early November. And. Steve kind of recommends the route that I should go up. Uh, first Nations don't, don't ever trust what Steve Punchin tells you to do. Yeah. Anyway, Sean: uh, yeah, I remember you came along at some point. Maybe I was on the route and I was on, I was on, um, emotional vampires. Rich: Oh, okay. Sean: Or maybe, yeah. Yeah, I think so. Rich: Was I climbing next to you then? Sean: Yeah. You were, you were like. 30 feet along. So I got a, a nice bird's eye view of the action. Yeah. So Rich: continue. Well, there's not much to tell besides like, it's a hard route. I am like, it's really hard so grift and don't really know what I'm doing to the degree that I like, scare myself off the root, you know, like I, I remember at one point I was trying to mantle up on this, this, this ledge. This is what, this is what I remember. Sean: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rich: And my, my feet cut and I just like. Total slam down, like straight armed. But, Sean: and, and also, I mean, for the listener, there's just the gear is. Yeah, it's below your feet, right? I think like it's, what was it, A small nut in a, in a little angle crack or something. Yeah. So you're, you come up to this ledge, which is maybe a foot or foot and a half deep. You get two hands on it, but it's not great. Yeah. And your feet are non-existent. Yeah. And you need to man the left to it. And then I see you try to do this. Isn't it fun to laugh at other people's descriptions? Oh yeah. You, you, you try to, you, you try to mantle up and then. You shoot down, you fall back, but you catch yourself and uh, yeah. Did you let out a blood curdling scream or, I Rich: can't remember, man, I just remember like being so. Gripped and nailed my element that I like, I couldn't let go, you know? Yeah. And, uh, I mean, I shouldn't have been on that route. Uh, but I think I got to the top. You got up Sean: at Rich: just out of like desperation. Sean: I was probably the third ascent actually. Rich: Oh yeah. Yeah. It's kinda like one of those things that's like, somebody said, you gotta do this or you die. Then you, you're like, you'll find a way. You know what I mean? And that's kind of how I felt. Sean: This is what it's like climbing with Rich Lappe or maybe, maybe more so Steve Bunch Steve. I playing on Steve. Yeah. I climbed with him for a lot of years and had had some great times. Yeah, for sure. So that's a scary, that's a scary moment for sure. What about, um, any feelings of just. Amazement and happiness climbing. Rich: Oh, like in the zone type of thing? Sean: Yeah, whatever. Whatever comes from, I'm sure. Rich: I mean they're uh, what's the word? You know, rare, but it's kind of what gets you addicted, I think. You know, is that, that sense of like flow. So yeah. Kind of been lucky enough when you're red pointing something, or even on sighting something that you know, is kind of, you know, maybe close to your level but totally doable and you can kind of just. Be into it and not think about other things. Yeah. Do you remember Sean: any specific route that I'm trying, man, I wish I, yeah, I'm putting you on the spot. It's Rich: all right. Yeah, no, I mean, I like to think that you get into that on most routes, but I don't know if it really stands out. I don't know. Has it been a route that you've seen me on that you thought, damn, Sean: he's in the zone? Yeah. Damn, that guy. I hope he remembers this. He's connected. Yeah, he's, no, no, not at all. I don't think so. I just remember emotional, remember whatever that, that's probably the Rich: more the norm of my existence, like when I'm climbing. Yeah. Sean: This has been great. Thanks for doing this with me. What about bouldering? I'm thinking like roots and bouldering. I think you've put a lot of effort into developing up the Musco Abbot Valley. It feels like that's where the center of your efforts have been and um, like I don't even know all the boulders that you've messed around on up there, but I know there's some. Quality problems, any memories of development of those spots or, uh, yeah. History of that, that kind of effort. Rich: Yeah, man, well certainly, yeah. Explored quite a bit for bouldering out in Musca, but Valley, like you say, uh, lucky enough to kind of move to the Eastern shore when, you know, there had been some development out in Musca Abbit, but not a lot. And some of it. You know, like, you know, Therion and Todd and others put up, you know, uh, stuff over the years that I had known about. But there was a lot to, to do. Mm-hmm. Whole areas to be kind of found and and discovered. So I was lucky enough to kind of have those, you know, opportunities when, um. You know, when it was meaningful for me and when I had the time. So, yeah. I mean, I love bouldering by myself for sure. Mm-hmm. It was like a nice outlet, you know, like I like being in the woods by myself and it's kind of fun, that process of un uncovering things, but with friends too, like me and you probably spent quite, quite a few days, I imagine, on, on different boulders and you know, Craig Stamp and mm-hmm. Discovered some areas with Sean White about Luke. Sean: Luke. Luke, yeah. What was his last name? Luke. He's out west now. Luke. Rich: Luke, man. Sean: Luke. Luke. You know Luke? Yeah. He, he put out a little, uh, beautiful little guidebook for bouldering at the north end of Musca. Rich: Oh, Jesse's diner, Jesse, uh, oh, no different area. Do Sean: you remember his, it was just intricate drawings and everything. Oh, it was gorgeous. I dunno where it's Gibraltar, Rich: Gibraltar, Gibraltar. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He also did a nice, beautiful thing that he never kind of made public for Jesse's diner as well. Oh. Yeah, Sean: top secret? Rich: Uh, I don't think, I think he was just, or just private? No, I think he meant to make it available, but never, just never released it. Maybe partly because I had some suggested edits and that maybe I was just being too annoyed that he just decided it's not worth it. Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. No. Yeah. Luke. Yeah, he was great to climb with. Uh. Yep. We, we did a bunch of stuff out there. Yeah. A lot of it's not documented or was kind of like documented in, in, you know, half-ass ways. Like somebody may have a copy of something, but Yeah. Uh, some good roots. I mean, I wouldn't say it was like the same quality as probably the LOC, but there's some. You know, I, I don't really know Sean: what's that. There's, I haven't done a ton of those problems, but there's a nice traversing left to right traverse. It's, yeah, I think it's Rich: gorgeous. That is, I would say that's the best bowler problem I've ever developed in terms of quality? Yeah, like independent of grades and stuff. So that's a Highliner Highliner and Sean White and I found that and climbed it. Um. You know, probably 20 years ago now. And, and even though we never really kind of documented it that well, like people have found out about it, and I think a lot of people have kind of sought it out because it is such a quality line, just aesthetically this beautiful kind of overhanging, slanting, traverse, crack with comfortable holds and really kind of fun. Yeah. It's Sean: like 20 feet long or something, right? Yeah, it's, it's 25 or 30 Rich: even. It's. If it was in, you know, the, but you know, Bishop, it would still be a classic kind of thing. Oh, Sean: it's, it's awesome. Yeah. So let's, uh, yeah, yeah, I think people should hunt that out. Rich: Oh yeah, that's a good one. That's a good one. And, um, I think it's around like V five, V six, like it's a pretty accessible Yeah. Grade for folks, so most people would be able to enjoy it and, and would, regardless of kind of what level they're bouldering. Yeah, that's a, that's a fun one. Yeah, definitely proud of that. I haven't been on it for years, but, um. Yeah, I should, should go climb it soon. Yeah, Sean: it's a classic. Yeah. Well, cool man. Um, what's next? What's next for you climbing wise or, or otherwise? Rich: Well, uh, I got some other, uh, climbing wise, I got some other, uh, local projects. You know, like, uh, my climbing and climbing aspirations are pretty limited. Like, I don't really have any huge objectives like. You know, internationally or something like that, you know, big trips, uh, you know, but I'm, I'm quite happy to kind of like, uh, find my windows to go seek solace on the cliffs and with good friends, you know, um, where I can. Uh, convince them to join me for a day now, Sean: looking at you. Why, why are you looking at me? Yeah. Rich: Yeah. So there's, there's some, uh, projects, uh, that I'd, I'd like to kind of develop that would be bolted, you know, in the Musca Valley area. And I'd like to repeat some of the lines that I've always thought would be cool to do for, for different reasons, either they, mm-hmm. You know, they, I'm, I'm interested in the history, you know, like roots that you've done. Um, like insomnia, chaos theory. I'd like to, uh, do those, uh, seem like just kind of like important ticks for me personally. Um, oh, cool. And ones that I think would be kind of like ni nice, nice challenges, you know, I'd like to get back up to Cape Clear. But we'll see, uh, seem to be doing more fishing these days than climbing, so I don't know. That's the, that's Sean: the beginning of the end. I'm pretty sure. Rich: Yeah. Always said I'd get into fly fishing when I got old, and now it's like, it's kind of like it's happening. It's happening. Yeah. But it's fun. Yeah. I don't have a lot, like a huge tick list, but I have a, a tick list of like 10 roots that I kind of got my sights on that I'll, I'll pick away at as I get windows. Sean: That sounds like you're still motivated. Oh yeah. Cool, man. Well, uh, if you run outta roots, you can always climb here in the icebox. I appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. And I appreciate you joining me for this. Uh, yeah, no, this adventure, this chat. So thanks a lot. Thanks, Cassie. Yeah. Cool man. Well, all right. That was fun. Thanks again, rich. And a big thank you to Seven Bay Bouldering for supporting our climbing community and helping me kick off this podcast series Seven Bays just had their 10th anniversary party in August and celebrated by opening a brand new location in. Dartmouth, congrats to Paul and the team. It looks awesome. I'm pretty stoked about it, actually, 'cause it's much closer to my house than your other two locations in Halifax, so be sure to check it out. It's on Brownlow Avenue in Burnside. And of course, thanks to you, the listener. I hope you enjoyed this. You can find out more about the podcast and this episode at Icebox Sessions. Do ca we'll catch you later. Five Rich: 11 Sean: C there's three of them and I suspect there's probably more than that. You mean like at that Craig? At Columbus? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Dr. Funk and Sign Rich: Insomnia and Chaos Theory. Sean: I've got a lot, lot of 11 Cs out there. Not a lot. There's you Rich: were like, that was like the five nine for you. Like for the guys back in the eighties. He's like seventies. Right. So we'll call 11 C. Yeah.