ICEBOX SESSIONS

_______________________________________________________________________ [00:00:00] Samantha: I remember when a friend climbed her first 13 and she was like, yeah, it took me. 50 sessions or something. And I was like, oh, well I could do anything in 50 sessions, [00:00:12] Sean: you know? Yeah. That doesn't count, right? You're like, yeah, you do. Three tries max. Come on. [00:00:17] Samantha: Right. And then at one point I thought, I wonder how hard I could climb. [00:00:25] Sean: Well, it turns out she can climb pretty damn hard. Hey everybody, welcome to another icebox session. My name is Sean Cassidy and we are in conversation with Nova Scotia Rock climbers. Today's guest is Samantha Peverill. Samantha started climbing at the tender age at three and a half, on which she calls that dirty little cliff in Bedford, also known as Eagles Nest last year in 2024. Samantha impressed a lot of people around here and surprised herself, I think by repeating most of the five thirteens in the province. She talks about her motivation to start trying harder. And to not be afraid of failing. And we also get into her recent approaches to training, which has made her stronger and more resilient. This was truly a fun and inspiring conversation for me. I hope you enjoy it too. So what do you think? You gonna be? Okay. [00:01:19] Samantha: I'll survive. This is good for me. Get me outta my comfort zone. [00:01:23] Sean: Well, welcome to the icebox. Where do you find your motivation? [00:01:27] Samantha: I think in order to be motivated to like try hard, trying hard is something I've always struggled with. I need to have like a goal, like an actual project. And that's not, projecting is very new to me, like the last two, three years maybe. I'm training for the first time really ever. And it's working. [00:01:48] Sean: Cool, cool. Yeah. What do you do in the train then? What does your training look like? And I've, this has become kind of a theme. I sort of say I don't train. I pretend not to train. [00:01:59] Samantha: Yeah. [00:02:00] Sean: I don't, 'cause training to me feels like, okay, you're lifting weights and you're doing pull-ups and mm-hmm. Things. So I never do that 'cause that's not very fun. But, you know, I like to keep a base of climbing fitness and that's what I do in here. And you're [00:02:12] Samantha: writing shit down and you're like going into sessions with a goal. So to me that's kind of like training. Okay. I don't know. I mean, yeah. For a really long time I would just go out and like kind of climb whatever top rope the same like roots just to be like out with friends. Like just to be outside and Yeah. And then at one point I thought, I wonder how hard I could climb. Like [00:02:44] Sean: if you tried, [00:02:45] Samantha: if I tried, like if I got on the same climb more than three times, like hard climbs. Yeah. Like when I'm away somewhere. Um, and so yeah, one winter. Jody and I did like a group training through training beta. Okay. So there was, it was like a six week thing. You had a coach, um, and I can't remember, it was a group of like 10 people or something. So you had like your own kind of training plan, but every week you would, would like, meet with this or like virtually meet with this group and she would go over like a topic for the, that week. Um, so maybe it was like resting, like learning how to rest properly or, um, yeah, that's the only one I really remember [00:03:37] Sean: resting. I like that. That's part of my training. Playing time. Yeah. That's [00:03:40] Samantha: a big, a big part of your Yeah. Your time in the icebox. [00:03:44] Sean: That's right. Yeah. Lot of sitting. [00:03:47] Samantha: Uh, but yeah, I like didn't have any, I wish that I had known some of the. I've always been a very intuitive climber. Mm-hmm. But there's all these things you can, techniques and stuff Yeah. That you can actually like teach someone, uh, you know, [00:04:07] Sean: I don't, I don't know what these things are either. See, this is very cool. Yeah. That's the thing. Yeah. [00:04:10] Samantha: So it's like, you know, if you want to Yeah. This is [00:04:13] Sean: neat. [00:04:13] Samantha: Be reaching you should be like [00:04:15] Sean: twisting your hips, I think. Right? [00:04:17] Samantha: Yeah. And like reaching with, you know, you should have the same foot on as like the arm that you're reaching with, right. And it's like, yeah, I do that intuitively, but some people don't. And you can just tell them and then they can do it. And it's like when you're clipping, you should always have like one hip into the wall instead of being like froggy or like something else. Like there's all of these like Yeah. [00:04:38] Sean: Tricks, [00:04:39] Samantha: trick mechanics, like physics, things that people know. Um, [00:04:45] Sean: so have, have you ever ever worked with Heather Reynolds? I mean, she's, she wrote a book on this years ago. No. And she's been coaching and teaching here. Yeah, for many years. [00:04:55] Samantha: Well, I never wanted to be coached. [00:04:57] Sean: Yeah, yeah. ' [00:04:58] Samantha: cause I didn't wanna work hard 'cause I didn't have any goals. So No, I never did. [00:05:04] Sean: So why this is, there's so many interesting things that you're talking about here, because like, wow. For one, I am, I've an intuitive climber as well. [00:05:13] Samantha: Mm-hmm. [00:05:14] Sean: And I've learned some of these little tricks, but I've always just preferred not to, or, or almost believed that there wasn't real tricks to it. Right. It's just like, you kind of work it out when you work on problems. Uh, so that's interesting. So we should talk about that more. But, um, what about, so before you had got into projecting or, or really getting sucked into something, why is it, do you think that you weren't interested in climbing more than a route? More than a couple times? Were you self-sabotaging in some way, do you think? [00:05:47] Samantha: I just thought that if I can't do it on my third go, I can't do it. Like, I didn't understand like, like root specific strength, I guess. Um, and like the value of actually like, 'cause I also have a terrible mind for beta. Partially, I think because I'm an intuitive climber. So it's like, I've never, you don't even know I've really been practicing it for the last couple of years. But like, how, how do people even remember beta? Like, you're like, okay, grab the cramp. Like, which cramp grab it? How, how do you, like you can't write, I can't write that all down. [00:06:28] Sean: I do, [00:06:29] Samantha: but what do you call them? Do you give them little names? Like grab Alfred the cr [00:06:33] Sean: Uh, I, I draw sketches. [00:06:34] Samantha: You draw sketches of a whole climb. [00:06:38] Sean: Uh, well look the crux parts like sins and transgressions. Show me, for example, show me where I've drawn it. Yeah. Where are these sketches? Uh, my book's inside. But, um, yeah, sins and transgressions [00:06:52] Samantha: mm-hmm. [00:06:54] Sean: Have had, did you get, have you got that yet? Yes. Good. So that the cr the lower crux is crazy intensive beta for, for me and I would always forget it. Right. So I have, that section is very clearly sketched them from memory where the little bumps are and mm-hmm. Where the foot's going or, you know, 'cause you know where it slips and, right, right. So, I mean, you don't draw the whole route, but I would definitely sketch things out that helps me rem I'm more of a visual memory person. [00:07:25] Samantha: And do you sketch it out at the Craig? No. Do you hang on the rope? [00:07:28] Sean: No, no, no. Just, [00:07:29] Samantha: well, how do you remember? Uh, [00:07:32] Sean: well if you don't, if you can't remember, but my memory's short, but I'll be, you know, dreaming about it when I get home for a day or two, so, [00:07:42] Samantha: yeah. [00:07:43] Sean: Uh, I, I think if you can't remember what you did it. You didn't figure it out like it was a, it was either too easy for you, so you don't need to remember it. Mm-hmm. Or you didn't actually figure it out. [00:07:56] Samantha: Mm. You didn't [00:07:57] Sean: understand what you were doing. [00:07:58] Samantha: Why not? Yeah. I [00:07:59] Sean: like to write it down. [00:08:00] Samantha: I feel like that's me. Like if, if you want my, if you wanna know how I do something, you have to watch me because I don't know. [00:08:08] Sean: Right. [00:08:08] Samantha: What happened. [00:08:09] Sean: Oh, well that's a great way to be too, I think. Well, I mean, yes, it's, unless [00:08:12] Samantha: you wanna do something better or non-intuitive. Mm. Like sometimes the intuitive way is gets me into a situation I can't get out of. And so that's why like projecting is so hard because I'm like, I can't just follow my intuition. I have to override my intuition in this place and do this other thing. [00:08:32] Sean: Right, right. [00:08:34] Samantha: But yeah, but then I have to like, I don't know, it's almost like, like I have to like get out of flow. Yeah. Engage my like critical brain. [00:08:47] Sean: Yep, yep. [00:08:48] Samantha: And still enjoy it. [00:08:51] Sean: Yeah. Right. So you, you, you, it took a while for you to get to convince yourself that you, you would enjoy that process because [00:09:01] Samantha: Yeah. [00:09:01] Sean: Like, it's not, it's a totally different way of climbing. I, I prefer intuitive on, I like on sighting, I like on, on too, like finding, finding the, [00:09:11] Samantha: yeah. [00:09:12] Sean: Breaking the beta and just kind of visualizing your body as you're in, in it. Mm-hmm. You know? And then, you know, I have, when I've projected, or even that big day, I did it first phase a few years back. Mm. It was, there was very specific beta that I was trying to remember and I'd done those roots so often I was climbing sort of by memory. [00:09:35] Samantha: Right. [00:09:36] Sean: It's kind of, it's sort of neat, but it's not, it doesn't feel like real climbing to me, where when you're just repeating. Yeah. What You've [00:09:45] Samantha: like a routine. [00:09:46] Sean: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. It's like a gymnastics routine or something. [00:09:49] Samantha: Uhhuh, maybe we're getting at something. [00:09:52] Sean: Well, can we back up? Let's hear your, how you got into climbing? Were you, uh, did you start climbing here? I assume you did. [00:09:58] Samantha: I didn't. Well, it depends how, when you define my start. So my parents, my parents have a picture of me climbing when I was three and a half, uh, at, um, that dirty place in Bedford. Eagles Nest. Eagles [00:10:15] Sean: Nest. Yeah. That [00:10:16] Samantha: dirty place in [00:10:17] Sean: Bedford. Delicate. Yeah. [00:10:18] Samantha: Um, yeah, so we, I guess I have like, funny little snippets of memory from that day because my shoe fell off halfway up the wall and I was very upset as a three and a half year old would be. But then there were blueberries at the top, so I was very happy. And that, those are my memories of that day. And I have some photos. So that was [00:10:41] Sean: So your parents took you climbing? My [00:10:42] Samantha: parents took me climbing. Oh. When I was a wee little old babe. [00:10:46] Sean: So have they climbed a lot here? [00:10:49] Samantha: Uh, not a, a lot, but they were present at the, uh, first meeting of Climb Nova Scotia. Okay. [00:11:01] Sean: And, [00:11:02] Samantha: yeah. Yeah. [00:11:03] Sean: This is crazy. You weren't even, you didn't exist yet? [00:11:06] Samantha: No, I don't think I did. [00:11:07] Sean: See, [00:11:08] Samantha: I don't think I did. But yeah, they remember very distinctly that they wanted to call it like, you know, rock climb Nova Scotia. And someone was like, well, what if I wanna climb a tree? And that's why it was climb Nova SCO instead of rock climbing nova all inclusive [00:11:22] Sean: climbing club. I love it. [00:11:22] Samantha: Exactly. Oh God. Um, but yeah, they. Did a fair bit of climbing. My dad did mostly ice climbing, like out west. [00:11:33] Sean: Oh wow, neat. [00:11:33] Samantha: Yeah. Um huh. [00:11:35] Sean: He come from climbing jeans. [00:11:37] Samantha: Yeah, I guess that's true. But I didn't really start until I was in my last semester of my undergrad in Montreal and I joined the, like, outdoor club had this like rock school weekend. Yeah. I remember us like learning how to tie in like indoors the night before and then we all went out and [00:11:59] Sean: Yeah. [00:12:00] Samantha: And I was hooked pretty much immediately. I remember so distinctly there was this climb called Bloody Fingers, but I couldn't do. Mm-hmm. And like it haunted me for years and I went back and did it come on, um, like two years later. It was like a, I think it was like a 10 C or something. I did that weekend. I climbed with those people that I met, um, for the rest of that semester. And then I did a year in Australia. And so when I. Moved out there. I like found a house that was like three climbers and I moved in with them and then, yeah, I had everything I needed and I just, yeah, I just climbed and climbed. [00:12:43] Sean: Was that af shortly after university then you graduated? That was, I went to Australia. [00:12:48] Samantha: That was my, um, it was an exchange through university, through my undergrad. Oh. And then through that I met like climbing dirt bags and I would just like fly to wherever they were. Um, and they would have like climbs picked out that they thought I would like [00:13:02] Sean: in all In Australia? [00:13:03] Samantha: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So I was super spoiled. I've always been super spoiled. And then I came home, started climbing here, and it was back in like the original ground zero days. [00:13:17] Sean: Oh. Ground zero one. So there's two ground zero, two versions of that gym for people that don't know, [00:13:21] Samantha: right? Yeah. This was the pod of pain version. Oh, [00:13:25] Sean: yes. Yeah. Yeah. Very much like the icebox, actually a [00:13:28] Samantha: little, yeah. You know? Yeah. Actually very much like the ice box, kind of a [00:13:31] Sean: tight, tight space. [00:13:32] Samantha: You had to climb up to it. The first people I met were like, yeah, Adam Benjamin, Luke Buxton. Um, so I started climbing with them. I mean, I guess I've never really given it up. Um, but it, it does compete with Ultimate for like the season and my energy and time. [00:13:51] Sean: Yeah. So like, you and I have crossed paths here and there over the years, but we don't know each other well, and the things I know about you are your addiction to climbing, Frisbee playing. [00:14:03] Samantha: Yep. Mm-hmm. And do you [00:14:04] Sean: love cats? [00:14:05] Samantha: Yeah. Those are all accurate. Yeah. Right. Aw, that's all you need to know. So, [00:14:08] Sean: uh, yeah. Tell, tell us a bit about the Frisbee stuff. You were, were you playing, were you doing Frisbee on the weekends in [00:14:15] Samantha: Ottawa? Yeah, I was in Ottawa. Yeah. Frisbee's a funny beast. It becomes very all consuming because it, 'cause it's a team sport. So your team becomes your like friends and then it just becomes your life. Like, so when Roger and I got together, he climbed and played Frisbee, but we started, well we evolved into this team called, who wants to party. Uh, [00:14:44] Sean: did Roger name this team? [00:14:46] Samantha: I dunno if he, yeah, I think he did. I can see [00:14:48] Sean: him naming them. [00:14:48] Samantha: Yeah. Um, but we were like the perfect balance of like party and also [00:14:56] Sean: nice. [00:14:57] Samantha: Good at Ultimate, but never taking ourselves too seriously. [00:15:00] Sean: Yeah, that's the best combo. [00:15:01] Samantha: Oh my God, it was so good. Yeah, so we were a mixed team and um, we like traveled and Roger and I would like tack on like climbing trips. So we would like, went to this tournament in Maine, um, and then we would like go to Rumney at the same time or like, you know, we had tournaments in Moncton and we'd go to Wellsford and we just, like, even, even when we were on our big road trip, we picked up with a team from Seattle in Vegas for this tournament. Just like the night before we're like, oh, there's a tournament happening. Like, maybe though, maybe there's a team that needs people. And so Yeah. And in, yeah, in Chattanooga too, we played, so. Wow. Yeah. [00:15:44] Sean: So you guys are, the teams are probably stoked to have you guys join 'cause I'm guessing you guys are pretty good. [00:15:50] Samantha: Yeah, and we play very different roles. Like I. He's a very good like thrower. Mm-hmm. Um, and I am a very quick runner, not surpris. Surprised. Yeah. So like even the, just the two of us, like as a pair, we were big point scorers. Oh right, right, right, right. He would throw and I would run anyway, why are we talking about this? But yeah. 'cause I asked about Frisbee, so Yeah. Frisbee takes up time and energy. 'cause [00:16:19] Sean: like, how does Frisbee relate to climbing? Or does it, is it, is it totally opposite? Complimentary in some way or, [00:16:28] Samantha: um, it's pretty opposite. I think having started to do a little bit more like weight stuff, which I started for. Climbing has been beneficial for ultimate [00:16:46] Sean: weight stuff. I'm just gonna write this down. Weight stuff. Write that down. Training ideas, weight stuff, weight stuff. And, uh, don't face the wall all the time. I gotta turn my hips. [00:16:57] Samantha: This is gonna be brilliant for your, uh, climbing. Finally, the [00:17:03] Sean: next level for me. [00:17:04] Samantha: Finally gonna accomplish the goals you've been aiming for all this time. [00:17:07] Sean: Yeah. [00:17:08] Samantha: Uh, [00:17:09] Sean: so I took, I went to see, uh, uh, took a course from Heather Reynolds [00:17:14] Samantha: mm-hmm. A [00:17:14] Sean: few years ago because, uh, I was trying to get my game on, you know? Yeah. I'm trying [00:17:18] Samantha: to bulk up, [00:17:19] Sean: not, no, not bulk up. Just learned, uh, sneaky techniques. [00:17:23] Samantha: I have a sarcasm obviously keep saying [00:17:25] Sean: I'm not bugged up. And, uh, it was kind of, it was kind of fun. But, so there's a small group of people. Most of them were little kids and. So I, I dam she said, someone get on the wall and climb. And so I climb like super smooth and got through these things like this is awesome technique, right? And then Heather immediately points out all the things I'm doing wrong. He's like, see how he's like full frontal and he is like three points of call that or whatever. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, I need some more checks. So, weights. Huh? Weights? [00:17:58] Samantha: Yeah, weights. [00:18:00] Sean: Um, [00:18:03] Samantha: yeah, so when Jody and I did this group training, that was part of it was, um, like actual weightlifting, which I had never done and hadn't really seen much value in in the past. [00:18:18] Sean: Okay. So tell me, try to convince me that that's important. [00:18:23] Samantha: So for me it's been most important for injury prevention. So the thing that the train the coach was saying was, the way you get strong is to go two years without being injured. Um, [00:18:38] Sean: yeah, that's so true. Yeah. [00:18:40] Samantha: Yeah. So it's like it doesn't make sense to super push yourself and then get injured and then get set back. Yeah. It's like just consistently like following like the training plan, even if it's not like epic. The plan and sticking to it is so much of the, like, the reason for the success. So the resting is actually super important. [00:19:08] Sean: Thank you. Yeah. Write that down. Wait, so this is, this is cross that out resting. [00:19:13] Samantha: No, but you can't get strong if you don't rest. And [00:19:16] Sean: yeah, [00:19:16] Samantha: she convinced us, which was difficult, that you need at least two full rest days a week. [00:19:23] Sean: Yeah, I believe that. Yeah. [00:19:24] Samantha: And this is one of the places where Ultimate and climbing. Clash. [00:19:31] Sean: Right? Because I always thought it doesn't allow any rest days. [00:19:33] Samantha: Well, I always thought like ultimate is my legs climbing's mostly arms or whatever. Um, but fully resting means like your heart rate does not go up. Mm-hmm. You do not do anything other than a walk or maybe some stretching. And so yeah, it wasn't, it was not in my nature to take full rest days. Uh, 'cause everything I love to do is physical activity. [00:20:01] Sean: So the on the weight program, what do you, this is specific for climbing, I think the training program you and Jody were doing. [00:20:08] Samantha: Yeah. It was specific for climbing. Yeah. So what, what were [00:20:11] Sean: you doing with weights? [00:20:12] Samantha: Well, we were doing a lot. So, um, like bench press was super, like the kind of the, the usuals like bench press, deadlift. Back squats. And then also like Bulgarian split squats, which are evil and like more kind of one sided things. So like, you know, like the one leg mm-hmm. Deadlift. So like kind of trying to deal with all of your [00:20:41] Sean: Oh, stabilizing muscles. Yeah. Stabilizing muscles and [00:20:44] Samantha: like, like things that you do to compensate for weakness. Yes, yes. Uh, so yeah, there were just, all these muscles, they weren't doing what they were supposed to be doing. Like my glutes for example. They just didn't wanna. [00:21:01] Sean: Job. Yeah. I think every has weak glutes. [00:21:03] Samantha: Yeah. It was like a real problem. And so weak glutes was like, then my knees were hurting and so, you know, like drop knees and knee bars and anything knee related. Hmm. Was really painful. It was just 'cause my, 'cause I have a lazy ass. [00:21:18] Sean: You mean more things to write down Because my knees are a little, a little titchy. Yeah. Uh, [00:21:24] Samantha: and it's so rarely the actual knee. [00:21:26] Sean: How did you notice the benefits of that training on your climbing? When, when and how [00:21:33] Samantha: So? The weights were great, but I think, uh. The thing that she made us do. 'cause she was virtual, was taking videos of ourselves. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. And so there were all sorts of different exercises and mostly they were done on the kilter board because that's like consistent across like, so she could look, she knew what the route was at the angle. That makes sense. Angle makes sense. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So one of the things we had to do was, uh, well, this isn't how I, this was how I noticed that my internal sense of how a climb went and the actual objective sense of how a climb went. Mm-hmm. Were not in alignment. So I would climb something. You come down and you say like, how you think it? Went like, how well you performed. Like, you know, you showed like a one or a five or whatever to the camera, and then later you watch it and it's like, I thought I was like so shaky and like, whatever, because I never believed people when they were like, oh. I was like, oh my God. I was so scared up there and like, oh, you couldn't tell. Right. And I just thought they were being nice to me. [00:22:47] Sean: Okay. But like, so you underestimated how well you were climbing it? Yeah. Is that, is that right? [00:22:52] Samantha: Yeah. [00:22:52] Sean: Right. [00:22:53] Samantha: And so as a result, I wouldn't try anything harder because I thought like, oh, if that felt so terrible, then why would I try like that V five felt awful. Like I'm not looking for a V six on the kilter, but it didn't look as awful as it felt. And she was able to like also point out things that I would consistently, I wanted to find more weaknesses to be perfectly honest. Um, the biggest one that came. App was that I am not dynamic as a climber. We sound very similar actually. Yeah. And the kilter was super, super good for that. Oh. Like it definitely encourages a more dynamic style. [00:23:39] Sean: Mm-hmm. [00:23:41] Samantha: And so yeah, I practiced moving faster, climbing a bit more dynamically. Yeah. And, uh, then I went to Mexico for like two and a half months. And when I was in El Alto, it was like everything I learned on the kilter was fully applicable Wow. To the stuff I was climbing. [00:24:05] Sean: So dyna wing to holds and is that what you mean, moving [00:24:08] Samantha: more dynamically? Yes. Okay. Like, not like. Feet off sort of Dinos, but like I had always believed it was more efficient to move more slowly and in control. [00:24:19] Sean: Yeah. [00:24:19] Samantha: And sometimes that's not the case. And that was a hard realization for me. Um, sometimes you just, you just gotta go, you just gotta got a [00:24:32] Sean: nice, yeah. Yeah. I, I remember, uh, Nick Sagar when mm-hmm. Him and Heather had a gym in, uh, bear's leg. Do you remember what that was called? [00:24:43] Samantha: Beyond, [00:24:43] Sean: beyond Gravity? Yeah. Or indoor Adrenaline. One of those two [00:24:46] Samantha: Beyond Gravity. [00:24:47] Sean: Anyways, Nick was bouldering on a steep wall, and he was climbing very dynamically. Like he would, I think it was dynos, he was kind of throwing, but, you know, just catching, barely catching the next one and moving on to the, the hole beyond it. And it was like a whole, you know, mind blown kind of moment. For me, because I'm, I come from a very old school style of climbing. Yeah. Which is static and controlled and flowy and mm-hmm. You know, um, but yeah, there's, there's a lot of different ways to, to do it better. Ways to do it [00:25:22] Samantha: Well, it depends, like, yeah. It's just nice to be able to do both and know when one is more efficient and when it's not. There is an exercise she got us to do called, well, she called them sloth monkeys. So it's like you pick a climb, like you pick up blue or whatever, and you climb it like a sloth. And then you, once you drop down, you climb it like very, like dynamically, but like using momentum [00:25:49] Sean: orangutan. [00:25:50] Samantha: The momentum is the important [00:25:52] Sean: right [00:25:52] Samantha: piece. It's like, not necessarily the, that you're like jumping or anything, it's just that you're not like stopping on each hold. You're like carrying the momentum throughout. And it was a really fun. Exercise to be like, wow, I climbed that climb in two completely different ways, [00:26:11] Sean: probably with a lot less energy on the second one. [00:26:14] Samantha: Well, yeah. I'm guessing like on it, depending on how the climb was like set up, like sometimes that just didn't work. Um, but you got a sense like doing those regularly on different types of climbs of like, oh, this is one of those times that it just makes sense to like go with my momentum. [00:26:31] Sean: Uh, super cool. [00:26:32] Samantha: Yeah, so it just like little things like that I didn't, you know, I didn't overhaul my entire way of climbing or anything like that, but, [00:26:42] Sean: but did you feel stronger, so you talked about the, the video referencing [00:26:46] Samantha: mm-hmm. [00:26:47] Sean: Helped you, I guess, have confidence that you could climb harder. [00:26:51] Samantha: Yeah. [00:26:51] Sean: And the kind of the more dynamic, dynamic approach helped you in El Alto. Mm-hmm. Um, what about the. Like the weights that you're talking about, those lifts and stuff? Yes. Where did that, where did you really notice that? [00:27:04] Samantha: I mean, so the weights and the like, uh, hang boarding, I'd never done any hang boarding before. And doing it in a, a way where someone was like telling me what to do was super helpful. So yeah, again, like on that Mexico trip, like my fingers just felt so strong. [00:27:25] Sean: Very cool. [00:27:26] Samantha: And so, yeah, I was just being stronger, made it easier to get, like, to feel like I had endurance, if that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So like the endurance came quickly because I was using less energy to do each move. [00:27:46] Sean: I always think strong fingers is like safety. You're, I feel safer when my fingers are really strong. Yeah. 'cause you can hang out longer, you don't panic. Mm-hmm. So therefore you. You know? [00:27:57] Samantha: Yeah. Get all [00:27:57] Sean: pumped out and you're relaxed. [00:28:00] Samantha: Mm-hmm. [00:28:00] Sean: So, no, this is inspiring. So right now, do you, like, do you have a training program that you keep up regularly of, of all those things? What are you doing? And maybe it's a different seasonal thing. Maybe this is a winter thing. I don't know. [00:28:14] Samantha: Yeah. Mostly I try and train in the winter. I think the thing that you, that's really interesting about climbing as a re like as compared to other sports that people like train and climb and like mm-hmm. Is that we don't have obvious, like peaks and valleys, especially people who climb indoors a lot. Like you're people are trying to like peak all the time constantly when it's when you're climbing. Yeah. And it's just not possible. So, yeah. So it's. In the summertime when I'm just climbing a lot outdoors, like I try not to do any training 'cause it's, it's not the time to like get stronger in that way. So I do have, I did, um, a lattice training. They have this like, self-guided one. They make the program for you, so you tell them what you want, you do some testing. So they give you like 12 weeks of training and you put it in your schedule, like what, you know, they give you guidelines, like, don't do this on the same day as this. Um, but uh, that was actually super helpful for finding some weaknesses that I didn't exactly know about. Um, so pull-ups, I'm really bad at pull-ups compared to like people who climb my grade. Yeah. Um, me too. And then this one was like. Okay. Your fingers are strong enough. Yeah, but my open hand was terrible. [00:29:52] Sean: Oh, my open hand's good. [00:29:53] Samantha: I like half cramp. I think I could hold, I could add like 40 pounds or something and hang in on like a 20 mil for 10 seconds. I couldn't hold body weight with open hand. Isn't that crazy? Wow. Like, how did that even come to me? So, [00:30:11] Sean: yeah. That's neat. Yeah. You're dependent on that one. One way of, [00:30:14] Samantha: yeah. [00:30:15] Sean: Cri, although for me, I open in everything now just 'cause of historic, [00:30:19] Samantha: that's what people say, [00:30:21] Sean: ruptures. Mm-hmm. Um, and I'm terrible. Like I sometimes you have to like bear down and crimp and I'm, I don't have what I used to have. [00:30:28] Samantha: Yeah. [00:30:28] Sean: Yeah. [00:30:29] Samantha: Well, I didn't even, before I did the training, um, with Jody, I didn't even really know. [00:30:37] Sean: Yeah. What? Sure. What your, [00:30:39] Samantha: what, what grips were like, they were like three finger drag. I was like, I don't know what that is. Like, I had to look it up and like, I was like, I don't really get it. And so it, one of the things I really liked with that training was little things to add to your warmup. So it's like, okay, while you're climbing this one, do it all open hand or do it all three finger drag. Or, you know, like, so you're, you're like tuning into different things or you know, like there's this thing where you like look at the hold and then you look away and put your foot on it. [00:31:15] Sean: Okay, cool. Yeah. Or [00:31:16] Samantha: you put your foot on it and you're not allowed to adjust. [00:31:19] Sean: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or things like that. So I thought those were all little games, [00:31:23] Samantha: little games to like, make warmup fun and like kind of tune into the stuff that like maybe you just do unconsciously, like half crimping everything apparently. Yeah. [00:31:31] Sean: Yeah. [00:31:32] Samantha: And my pinches, my pinch strength was super weak. So I started working on that and that, that was super helpful in, um, El Selto where there was like lots of tufa. So yeah, I, I have been finding little things to work on, but really so much of it was just not being willing to try hard. [00:31:53] Sean: And now that you feel stronger, you're more willing to try hard or you've just, or you've got over that hurdle and [00:32:00] Samantha: Yeah, I got over that hurdle. Yeah. And I'm willing to fail. [00:32:05] Sean: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because you, back to back up way earlier in the conversation, you said that when you were traveling a lot, you would basically onsite everything and you're climbing every day and keeping fit that way, which is mm-hmm. Which has always been my limited recipe, right? Yep. Climb a lot, rest a lot. Yeah. Keep climbing. Um, and then you would come home and you'd just sort of chill with friends. Mm-hmm. So yeah. You were never really failing. [00:32:28] Samantha: No, it's never been something I've been very good at. But people who like get places in life are good at failing. [00:32:35] Sean: Yeah. [00:32:35] Samantha: Like failing the right way. [00:32:38] Sean: So you're more comfortable with failing now? [00:32:40] Samantha: Yeah. [00:32:41] Sean: Why? [00:32:42] Samantha: I don't know. That's a really good question. Maybe, I don't know. Maybe I've just gotten more confident in being a human and yeah, being good at some stuff, not good at other stuff. And willing to put in the effort. And maybe it gets you somewhere, maybe it doesn't. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think in other areas of my life I've started to see the value in working hard. In my undergrad, I was in business school, which is [00:33:12] Sean: hilarious. That doesn't seem to fit. No, [00:33:14] Samantha: no. It doesn't fit at all. But I didn't have classes on Fridays. And I thought that was just great. And then my roommates were in engineering and like biology and all these things and they were working so hard and I thought it was so silly. Yeah. And then looking back, it's like I didn't learn anything because I took such an easy route, you know? It's like I wasted that time thinking, I was like getting on. You were, you were beating the [00:33:48] Sean: system and Yeah. [00:33:49] Samantha: Thinking I was getting ahead. [00:33:50] Sean: Yeah. Yeah. But [00:33:51] Samantha: really, I love learning and I could have spent that tuition and time learning things and, um, that wasn't, I mean, I learned a lot being in Montreal and [00:34:07] Sean: No, outside of school. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Well, life, I dunno. I, I think uni for me, university, yeah. I got fully into climbing then and other outdoor stuff, mountain biking. Um. And you learn. You learn how to learn. I think when you're just kind of, [00:34:23] Samantha: yeah. Working [00:34:24] Sean: your ass off and I mean, I can't remember hardly anything that I quote unquote learned. [00:34:29] Samantha: Yeah. [00:34:31] Sean: So don't go to school kids. [00:34:35] Samantha: Yeah. That's the answer. [00:34:38] Sean: Well, this is cool learning about, uh, well let, let's stay on the subject of failing and trying hard because I think a lot of times failing, it's a fear of other people's opinions. Mm-hmm. About, you know, not succeeding on something. Right. And if you take the approach of, uh, I'm not trying, I'm never really trying, then it's sort of an excuse. You give yourself an excuse to not succeed at something. Right. [00:35:04] Samantha: Yeah. [00:35:04] Sean: And if you do fall on that route, well, I wasn't really trying, so it doesn't, you know, you can't judge me for that 'cause I wasn't trying. But really, it's more cool to see people try. [00:35:15] Samantha: Yeah. Isn't it? [00:35:16] Sean: It's more, it's inspiring to see people try. [00:35:19] Samantha: It really is, even if [00:35:20] Sean: they fail gloriously. [00:35:25] Samantha: I don't think it was other people's opinions that I was concerned about. It's, it's just me. Um, perfectionist. I'm a bit of a perfectionist. Yeah. Yeah. I like being good at stuff. [00:35:35] Sean: Yeah. [00:35:36] Samantha: And I mean, I like being good at stuff, but I really don't like not being [00:35:40] Sean: good at stuff. Gotcha. Yeah. [00:35:42] Samantha: So, and it had always come like, fairly naturally to me climbing, and I, I think I was scared to find out that like, that I was at my peak, that I had accomplished whatever it was I was going to accomplish. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 'cause I remember thinking, you know, when other people, like, I remember when a friend climbed her first 13 and she was like, yeah, it took me. 50 sessions or something. And I was like, oh, well I could do anything in 50 sessions, [00:36:18] Sean: you know? Yeah. That doesn't count, right? You're like, yeah, you do three tries Max, come on. [00:36:22] Samantha: Right. But that was really how I, and I'd never really found anything I was willing to put that much effort into, but I think I was scared that like, what if I do put 50 sessions and you couldn't do it Yeah. Into via a Ferrari. Yeah. And I can't hate that, do it, hate, you know, like, what does that, what does that mean for me? [00:36:45] Sean: Um, so it sounds like, I mean, maybe I'd like to talk about the tear that you've been on lately. And I started hearing about this. I mean, you could fill in the details. This is, this is what I learned and, and I, I only know a bit of it, but, so you, last season, I think you did three five thirteens in the province. Is that right? Yes. [00:37:06] Samantha: Or was it [00:37:06] Sean: over? Did you do one in the spring? [00:37:09] Samantha: No, that was, yeah, they were all in [00:37:10] Sean: 2024. [00:37:11] Samantha: Yeah. [00:37:13] Sean: So that would be splitting coins, uh, for the moment. [00:37:18] Samantha: Yep. [00:37:19] Sean: And chameleon. [00:37:20] Samantha: Mm-hmm. [00:37:22] Sean: Uh, that's a lot to take on. [00:37:24] Samantha: Well, [00:37:25] Sean: I think, I mean, I can't imagine I've managed to barely do one of those routes. I can't imagine doing three. [00:37:32] Samantha: So, I mean, it was, I was climbing a bit with, like, Mira was working coins, so I went out with her a couple of times, like not really thinking that I could do it. But then, uh, Kevin showed up and just like, what's Kevin's last name? Kevin Go, [00:37:51] Sean: Kevin, go. [00:37:51] Samantha: He, he just, he like ran in in his rain boots 'cause he had slept in and then pulled the rope and like let it. Which just blew my mind. I'd never seen anyone climb it before. What [00:38:07] Sean: ground he, what? He just onside. He had [00:38:08] Samantha: been No, he had been Yeah. Working it, but like, not the same way that like, we used to just top rope the shit out of something. Yeah. Until it's like, okay, now we're not gonna fall for sure. And well that's, yeah. So that was super inspiring to be like, oh wow. Like he just, [00:38:26] Sean: that's amazing. Just [00:38:27] Samantha: did it. And so I went back, I don't know how many sessions it was like, I don't know, maybe four or five sessions. Um, made like pretty quick progress. And Jody was working, um, brainstorm. [00:38:44] Sean: Oh yes. Cool. So [00:38:45] Samantha: we went, uh, [00:38:47] Sean: which is a five 11 a, I think. [00:38:49] Samantha: I think it's 11 C. Okay. And I found it super hard. Huh. And that brain is crumbling. Oh. So it gets harder and harder. [00:38:56] Sean: Dementia. [00:38:57] Samantha: Dementia. Yeah. You're familiar. Or maybe you don't remember. [00:39:02] Sean: Hey, watch it. [00:39:04] Samantha: Um, yeah, so, so in that case, like yeah, I had someone who was willing to like, go back with me. Perfect. And we sent on the same day. Oh. Oh wow. Nice. Yep. We went and I, I did mine, cheated hers and then we're like, well, now what do we do with the rest of the day? Yeah. The ette. I was like, oh, well I've done a lot of the things at Sorrows now, so like maybe I'll try this A ru. Mm-hmm. Um, I'd seen Will working it like before and like I knew there was one clip that was kind of scary, but it's like, I'll just give, you know, [00:39:39] Sean: that's Will Bland you're talking about. Yeah. [00:39:40] Samantha: Will Bland. So I started working. The ette. And, and Kevin also was working it, so we would go and he's very keen. So like, even if it was like a evening and we only had time for like one go each or two goes each, like we would still go. And it took, I, it took me longer. That one definitely took me the longest. [00:40:04] Sean: Really longer than splitting coins. 'cause splitting coins, like how that's like, what, an 80 foot slab? Mm-hmm. Steep slab with un unending, like micro crimps. Yeah. Super painful on the, [00:40:18] Samantha: oh my god. Toes so hard on the top. And the [00:40:20] Sean: ettes, it's sorrows. Uh, it's much, I think it's shorter and [00:40:26] Samantha: yeah. But totally [00:40:27] Sean: different style. [00:40:28] Samantha: The crux on the ette is like, by far the hardest moves I've ever done. Hmm. So getting through that crux, like I got up to it. Probably like 5, 6, 7, 8 times. Mm-hmm. Before I made it all the way through. And I came up with my own way of, um, doing that while doing the whole thing really. But, um, making that clip in a way that wasn't super sketchy because that clip is really scary. Yeah. And then one day, are you guys [00:41:06] Sean: working this from the ground? Is that typically how you, you'd approach these, [00:41:10] Samantha: these things? I did it on, I think I did it on top of maybe two days until I felt like I could clip that one. Mm-hmm. And then it was ground up. It's been dangerous [00:41:21] Sean: otherwise. Yeah, [00:41:22] Samantha: yeah. Yeah. And then there was one day that, um, my friend ri and I ha camped out at Sorrows to get like the good morning temps and in the morning. Mira Kevin and Will came out even though it was like a, just randomly Wednesday. No. Like they knew we were there. [00:41:46] Sean: Okay. [00:41:47] Samantha: And so the five of us were there on like a Wednesday morning, like, do none of us work? Like what is happening? Yeah. Yeah. Um, and uh, we had a blow up boat and so Will and Mira had gone over to Creme to Creme. Creme to Creme. [00:42:00] Sean: Yep. [00:42:01] Samantha: Um, and yeah, and I just, I just finally like sent the ette. Yeah. And so [00:42:08] Sean: it was the crowd that inspired you? [00:42:11] Samantha: I don't know, maybe. I think like Will and Kevin and I were climbing together for a little bit 'cause he was working chameleon, so he was often there at the same time. And like I did really feed off. Yeah, like Kevin's chill energy and will's like excitable energy. Like it was just really good for me. That like trio Super cool was I think the key to my success. But yeah, so Will was still working Chameleon and Kevin was still working the year Rat, so I continued to go to Sorrows. So I did um, I worked hesitation and then I led that and then, uh, [00:42:51] Sean: so hesitation breeds chaos. That's like an, what are we calling that? 11 C. [00:42:55] Samantha: 11 c [00:42:57] Sean: uh, tra line. Pretty very thin. [00:43:01] Samantha: Yeah, [00:43:01] Sean: pretty thin I think. I think. I mean, the gear's kind of there. It's a little small. [00:43:08] Samantha: Yeah. [00:43:08] Sean: Tricky. [00:43:10] Samantha: Tricky. But yeah, I, so I did that, Mir and I both did that. Yeah. Yeah, she told me that. Yeah, that was exciting. Know what he died, um, and, uh, always [00:43:24] Sean: a good thing. [00:43:24] Samantha: Yep. So then, so I'd done that, and then I was still supporting the others and so I continued to go to Sorrows. So then I started getting on Chameleon, um, and I figured out the middle really quick, figured out the top fairly quickly, like I think the second session I had. The top sorted. And then it was just a matter of putting the bottom together, which I didn't believe was possible. Um, [00:43:58] Sean: it's a pretty, it's a bit of a reach. You get to get to that, uh, that right hand, that right finger hold or you jump to it like Wills already's doing these days. [00:44:07] Samantha: Yes. No. And then I think it was like my, maybe the fourth, third session I figured out a way I thought would work. Fourth session I did the move and I was like, well I gotta go to the top now 'cause I don't know if I can ever do that move again. [00:44:20] Sean: Nice. [00:44:21] Samantha: So yeah. Then it was done. [00:44:22] Sean: Cool. [00:44:23] Samantha: Yeah, I felt a little bad. 'cause Will, will Bland was in Japan at the time. Yeah. And I'd only been like getting on it to like. Work it together, you know? [00:44:33] Sean: Oh, so you sent it before him? Is that what happened? [00:44:36] Samantha: No comment. Um, yeah, and I was like, do I tell him? Do I not tell him? He's [00:44:41] Sean: fine. He would've been stoked, I'm sure. Yeah. He was [00:44:43] Samantha: very stoked for me. Yeah. Um, yeah. And he sent it this spring early, like, yeah. So, [00:44:49] Sean: yeah. Yeah. [00:44:51] Samantha: Yeah. [00:44:51] Sean: Awesome. Well that's, are there, were there other big sends last season then? [00:44:57] Samantha: Um, I mean, nothing big. I did, um, Funkenstein or Stein or whatever. Dr. Funkenstein. Yeah. Yeah. I was pretty happy with that one. Um, 'cause I really struggled the first couple times I got on it. [00:45:14] Sean: That's another 11 c ish route at, uh, Columbus. Mm-hmm. Wall. [00:45:19] Samantha: Yeah. Yeah, I think that's it. [00:45:22] Sean: That's pretty good. [00:45:23] Samantha: Yeah. It was a good year. [00:45:24] Sean: So from a numbers point of view, like when I started climbing, five 13 was the top. Grade anywhere. Yeah. And you, with focus and projecting and all the training that you kind of built yourself up to snagged through them in, in one year. I think that's super impressive and it's inspiring to me. [00:45:47] Samantha: I'm glad. [00:45:48] Sean: And it, I'm sure to many other people, I mean, I [00:45:51] Samantha: tried to keep it on the down low. [00:45:53] Sean: I know you. Yeah, I know. [00:45:55] Samantha: But didn't, that's, that's kind [00:45:55] Sean: of your style, which is admirable. [00:45:57] Samantha: Yeah. Yeah. Will was like my hype hype guy. Your [00:46:01] Sean: hype guy, your, yeah. PR guy. [00:46:03] Samantha: Yeah. Someone, I can't remember, someone congratulated me on sending coins and I was like, who told you? I was like, well, oh my God. That was [00:46:14] Sean: probably it. [00:46:15] Samantha: Yeah. [00:46:16] Sean: So what about, um, do you ever think of your role as a female role model to up and coming climbers? And like I say, I'm inspired by what you did and I can't help but imagine some teenager who's climbing at the gym seeing you climb and get inspired by that. Do, do you think of that at all, or does that not cross your mind? [00:46:44] Samantha: I mean, not really. It's not like I've never thought about it, but it's not really how I think of myself. Mm-hmm. I don't know. I don't have, I don't have a visual of like the girls or women who could be inspired by me. I don't. [00:47:05] Sean: What does that mean? You don't, you don't see who those people might be? Yeah. [00:47:08] Samantha: I don't know who they might be. Really. Yeah. Like I don't, I don't, [00:47:13] Sean: I mean, you spend a lot of time at the gyms. I spend some time at the gym where you see a lot of people and there's a lot of women climbing there. [00:47:19] Samantha: Yeah. I suppose I. I have this, um, feeling that like, while I've been climbing so long, like I should be able to do these things. Hmm. Uh, which I don't think is like a necessarily a healthy belief. [00:47:36] Sean: There's not many people locally that get to that level. Or maybe there are, there's people climbing so hard these days. I, I'm just constantly amazed and impressed with what's going on. But [00:47:45] Samantha: yeah, still I [00:47:46] Sean: think you should be proud of your accomplishments. I'm [00:47:48] Samantha: proud of my accomplishments. Yeah. I, I don't have any like, mentorship relationships with young women or, or anything like that. I don't have, um, it's nice that people who know me well think that I could be a role model for somebody. Definitely. Yeah. And I wouldn't know how to go about it, I guess. [00:48:12] Sean: Well, it doesn't need to be anything formal. I think you can be a role model. I think you are. No, I bet you're a role model to a number of. Young female climbers and you don't know it. [00:48:22] Samantha: Yeah. [00:48:22] Sean: And they just, I mean, it's just partly, it's a matter of like seeing what's possible by anyone, for anyone, right? Like [00:48:29] Samantha: mm-hmm. [00:48:31] Sean: Like I said, I'm, I'm inspired by the stuff you've done and like, oh, maybe I should try hard, you know, maybe I should, uh, lift the few barbells or something. And, uh, yeah. I don't underestimate what what you're bringing to the table, just doing what you're doing, but I guess, you know, don't take any pressure from that either. It's, [00:48:49] Samantha: no, it's just, I feel like maybe I should try less to like hide it. I remember someone asking me like, oh, were you the first woman to send the Send Chameleon or send hesitation or something? Yeah. I'm like, I don't, I don't know, probably who's keeping track of these things. Like where would you, I have no idea. And it's [00:49:10] Sean: all you gotta do is spray on the internet. Well, that's the thing. It's like, [00:49:12] Samantha: not something I would claim, but maybe somebody. You know, [00:49:16] Sean: I think there's a difference between, um, being humble and not being proud of something enough to share with people. Yeah. Like I think I've, in my, as I've gotten older, I'm more comfortable in saying, Hey, I did this. You know, people know me enough that I'm just excited and [00:49:35] Samantha: Yeah. [00:49:36] Sean: And I want people to be excited with me. That's, that's kind of the main thing. [00:49:39] Samantha: I think I'm less in the mind that like, it was a fluke now that there were three still kind of blows my mind. So now, now we've wandered onto things that may or may not be possible. [00:49:56] Sean: Oh, good. Because I was gonna ask what's, what's next, uh, what's next for you? [00:50:00] Samantha: Um, so Kevin and I both have been trying the project. I believe it's a project at the bottom of Eagle, [00:50:09] Sean: right [00:50:09] Samantha: in the corner. Um, that overhanging [00:50:12] Sean: Edel. Mm-hmm. That's the [00:50:14] Samantha: one. [00:50:15] Sean: I think Rich Lappe both [00:50:16] Samantha: did that. I believe so. Maybe Rich and Adam. I don't know. There's, yeah, I think he said that there's not a ton of information out there about it. Um, but yeah, we have been working on it. [00:50:31] Sean: Exciting. [00:50:32] Samantha: Very exciting, actually. Like, yeah. [00:50:34] Sean: Yeah. You're, it looks like you're, you're making a little bit of progress. You see some possibilities. [00:50:40] Samantha: I do see some possibilities because when I first thought when you [00:50:42] Sean: first mentioned that route, you were like, that's not, it's not gonna go, it's not happening. [00:50:46] Samantha: Um, but now you seem a [00:50:47] Sean: little bit more optimistic. [00:50:49] Samantha: Well, yeah. There's one gap where no moves have been made. Right. But ibel more so believe that it's possible now. And I'm enjoying the process of like, like there's no, like, I mean, I often have to kind of start from scratch because I. Usually the beta videos that are available are not my body shape. [00:51:16] Sean: Yeah. [00:51:17] Samantha: Um, so I'm used to looking at things with fresh eyes, but this is like really fresh eyes. It's like there is no chalk. You're not even sure if the holds that you're going to are gonna stay on the wall. Since it's a dihedral, there's just so many options of body positions and yeah, it's very, that sounds wild. It is wild. It's a nice little setting. [00:51:37] Sean: Two, eh, 'cause the sun comes down in there, reflects off the water. Oh, it's so nice in there. Yeah, [00:51:41] Samantha: yeah, [00:51:42] Sean: yeah. [00:51:42] Samantha: The belay stance is a little challenging. We're still trying to figure out the best way to do that. I can't, yeah. The rope gets really in the way of doing the first moves, which are hard, hard, hard, just pulling off the ground. So, yeah. [00:51:59] Sean: Have you thought about trickle, trickle down? [00:52:02] Samantha: I touched it. She, [00:52:03] Sean: she, for the, for the listen listener, she just rolled her eyes big time. [00:52:07] Samantha: Everyone's bugging me about trickle down and so I touched it and it's [00:52:13] Sean: there [00:52:13] Samantha: very hard and [00:52:15] Sean: yeah. Wow. [00:52:16] Samantha: That's, that [00:52:17] Sean: you can do hard. You just gotta try harder. Okay. 13 [00:52:19] Samantha: A to 14 B is a hell of a job. [00:52:22] Sean: Okay. Fair enough. Yeah. I, I wouldn't, I have no idea. [00:52:25] Samantha: Yeah. And there's still, um, there's still one 13 the extension at the right side of Eagle Gly that Yeah. [00:52:34] Sean: Variant product. I was gonna ask you about that. Yeah. Yeah. Because I looked at the book, um, Todd's, um, rock climbing in Nova Scotia book Todd Foster, and. Yeah, there's those three five thirteens that we just talked about. Mm-hmm. And then Sean, um, we were chatting about it the other day. Uh, gosh, he told me what it was. [00:52:51] Samantha: El El Electric Lady Land. Oh, there's two of them. There's a 12 D and a 13 A. [00:52:57] Sean: Yeah. [00:52:57] Samantha: Um, and I haven't had the chance to get on either of them. Um, they're quite in the sun right now. [00:53:05] Sean: Everybody hurts. [00:53:06] Samantha: Everybody hurts. [00:53:08] Sean: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It'd be cool to, uh, hear what you think of those. I, [00:53:14] Samantha: I really wanted to get on them at the end of last season, and it just like the weather cropped out. Mm. And we never, I never got onto them. [00:53:21] Sean: Cool. So here's a, so I interviewed Sean, uh, a week ago. Mm-hmm. [00:53:26] Samantha: Or so, [00:53:26] Sean: um, and I asked him if he had a question for my next guest, which was you. So do you wanna hear Sean's question? [00:53:34] Samantha: Yes, of course I do. [00:53:36] Sean: All right. Okay. So he says, um. Of the hardest roots you have crushed in Nova Scotia. Was there one single move or sequence that you found the most challenging physically and or mentally? Mm. One single move or sequence? [00:53:53] Samantha: Yeah, so physically it was definitely the crux of, for the moment where I had to like, I call it a nipple pinch and yeah, like really high foot. Just like super, super strenuous and then like bump up the, anyway, yeah. Yeah. A series of very, very difficult moves in a row. Cool. Physically, like the hardest things I've done, but mentally, definitely the bottom of chameleon [00:54:28] Sean: really. [00:54:28] Samantha: I didn't believe it was possible. [00:54:30] Sean: Hmm. [00:54:32] Samantha: Yeah, so I was basically overcoming my own disbelief every time I stepped onto that thing. And yeah, I think it was my, my hype squad really, that made me mm-hmm. Try, despite my very strong belief that it wasn't possible for me. [00:54:50] Sean: Can we explore that a bit? Because sometimes I wonder about, like, I think every one of us, every climber has stepped up on a move or pulled on their fingers and believed they were gonna blow off in the next instant, and, but you kind of just keep moving upwards somehow. [00:55:12] Samantha: Mm-hmm. What [00:55:12] Sean: is that, what's happening there? [00:55:15] Samantha: I call it cramping on belief. Crimping on belief, [00:55:17] Sean: cramping on belief. [00:55:19] Samantha: There's some times that it just, yeah, there's no hold there. Just crimp on belief and sometimes like, yeah, you are like, well that's not a hold, but somehow I can hold onto it. Yeah. Yeah, which just blows my mind. Just have to, our bodies are capable of things we don't necessarily believe or can't picture. [00:55:41] Sean: Um, favorite roots, maybe some other things in the easier grades where the rest of us humans can [00:55:47] Samantha: ha ha [00:55:48] Sean: climb them. [00:55:50] Samantha: Favorite roots. I am very partial to first face, like slave to fashion, I feel like has only recently been getting the attention it deserves. And I also love the berry bandit. Uh, climb. [00:56:05] Sean: That's good, isn't it? Yeah, it is good. Yeah. Yeah. And I [00:56:07] Samantha: feel like it's kind of hidden up there. Yeah. And people don't, don't climb it all that often. [00:56:14] Sean: Yeah. It's good. Yeah. It's, I like that route. [00:56:15] Samantha: I really like it. [00:56:16] Sean: Yep. [00:56:16] Samantha: I think it's super cool. Blue sky mining I got on recently and I loved it. Oh, this is so good. People get like, I'd only heard bad things about it and so I'd never gotten on it. That's the thing I've like gotten on. Yeah. The same climb. Did you clean it? You must have scrubbed it again. No, I didn't. I didn't scrub it. I just climbed it. [00:56:32] Sean: There's Likeum growing on the bolt. [00:56:34] Samantha: It was awesome. It was so cool. [00:56:36] Sean: Awesome. [00:56:38] Samantha: Really neat. [00:56:38] Sean: Sean and I were just talking about this on the last podcast. [00:56:41] Samantha: Blue Sky Mining. Yeah. [00:56:42] Sean: Yeah. I mean, it was the first route that he bolted in the province. [00:56:45] Samantha: I, I couldn't believe people talk so much smack about it. If you want, you can bring up a piece or two, [00:56:51] Sean: so it's not hard climbing. You just gotta scramble over a clip. A bolt. You gotta scramble Good. [00:56:55] Samantha: And you gotta make sure that you're careful what you're pulling, pulling on. Yeah. Like on the scramble up, but that's. That's all of it. Um, and then ghost dance. I did ghost dance this year. Oh yeah. Isn't it good? Love that climb. That's [00:57:08] Sean: so cool. [00:57:09] Samantha: I'd never gotten on it before. I keep [00:57:10] Sean: telling, like, you've heard me tell you it's good. Right? No, maybe I tried to tell everybody more recently. [00:57:15] Samantha: I think you told me that. It's good. [00:57:17] Sean: And like every time I'm out there seeing people I say, you gotta get on this one. [00:57:20] Samantha: Yeah. [00:57:21] Sean: But yeah. Great, great climb. Yeah. I feel that way. Any other ones I wanna hear is hear your [00:57:27] Samantha: my [00:57:27] Sean: You get it a lot. So you're, you're traversing these, these roots. This is cool. [00:57:31] Samantha: Yeah. Um, let's see, what else? Let's think about other places. I mean, Gibraltar, I really like some of the sport climbs there. Like, um, the, I think it's a five nine, maybe on the like edge of it. You climb like Blueberry Express or Battle of the Bulge to get on that big, beautiful ledge. [00:57:53] Sean: Oh, okay. I don't, I don't, I haven't done those roots, so I don't know. Battle of the Balls. I've heard great things about that. Yeah. [00:57:59] Samantha: So there's two ways to get up to the ledge. And the ledge is amazing. I could hang out on the ledge all day. [00:58:04] Sean: Okay. [00:58:05] Samantha: Have done. And then if you go more straight up, I think it's a five nine and I love it. I think it's so cool. Okay. And then the second pitch of Battle of the Bulge is also super cool. I think they're both like, awesome. [00:58:20] Sean: I have to go to Gito. [00:58:21] Samantha: Yeah. Well you said that you would go with me. Yeah. I, I guess we're going. [00:58:24] Sean: Yeah. Cool. [00:58:26] Samantha: So yeah, both of those are really cool. Um, I've had a newfound appreciation for sorrows lately, doing the Russell Love that climb. I mean it's, [00:58:38] Sean: uh, refresh my brain again. [00:58:40] Samantha: Tried overhanging crack 10 D to the left, like to, oh [00:58:45] Sean: yeah. Steve, Bruce, Steve Bruce put that root up. No idea who put that. So the far left end. [00:58:50] Samantha: Yeah. [00:58:50] Sean: Yeah. That's a painful crack. [00:58:52] Samantha: It's amazing. I love that crack. Well, you [00:58:55] Sean: have crack love. [00:58:56] Samantha: I have crack gloves. Yeah. [00:58:57] Sean: Yeah. [00:58:57] Samantha: Yeah. Okay. With the tins. [00:58:59] Sean: Oh, I know, I know. I, uh, I'm excited about climbing cracks with crack gloves now. Yeah. Because that, that crack is painful. [00:59:06] Samantha: I imagine it would be if you didn't have crack gloves. I [00:59:09] Sean: watched Steve Brews climb that. Mm-hmm. Uh, for the, uh, I don't, it was the first ascent. I don't know if he onsight it, but Right. He was kind of wigging on it a little bit, you know? Um, yeah. And he just fought, fought through it, and got up it, and I said to him like, I'm, I'm so, so impressed you did that. Like, how did you do that? He said, I said, it looks scary. And he said he's more afraid of failing than falling. [00:59:36] Samantha: Oh, that's good. [00:59:37] Sean: Yeah. [00:59:38] Samantha: Yeah. Um, hummingbird Boogie. [00:59:41] Sean: Mm-hmm. [00:59:42] Samantha: Also at Soros. [00:59:43] Sean: You like that one? [00:59:44] Samantha: I do. [00:59:45] Sean: I haven't been to Soros for a long time. [00:59:47] Samantha: Well, I, [00:59:48] Sean: 15 years ago [00:59:49] Samantha: really stopped. I didn't, I really undervalued sorrows. [00:59:53] Sean: Hmm. [00:59:53] Samantha: Um. Yeah. Just because we'd go there so often. [00:59:57] Sean: Right. But I [00:59:58] Samantha: wouldn't get on all the things. So like, [01:00:00] Sean: now you're on the things. [01:00:01] Samantha: Now I'm on all the things. Super cool. Yeah. There's still a couple of things to be put down there. [01:00:07] Sean: What, uh, I'm just thinking, you, you seem to be comfortable. You, you do all forms of rock climbing, it seems to me. Right? You're in the gym, you're pulling plastic. [01:00:15] Samantha: Mm-hmm. [01:00:15] Sean: You're sport climbing, sending the hardest sport climbs we have. You're tra climbing. I know you and Kevin are now working out on Roots at Crow's Nest, for example. Mm-hmm. Like full on steep overhanging cracks. Um, what do you, what do you think about style differences or, um, you know, people that are, may maybe afraid of trying another style? Or, or what detracts you to the, to the different ones? [01:00:42] Samantha: I didn't like, I, I've come and gone from trad climbing over the years, but I like the puzzle of it. Like I, I don't know, I guess I just was ready for that additional challenge. Like once you're climbing hard, then getting on trad climbs that are considerably below your, like physical limit mm-hmm. Feels a lot more like possible. Yeah. Right. Um, and part of it is just like, I want to do all the climbs everywhere. I wanna be able to like go where the conditions are good and be able to climb something. So I've been building out, I had never had my own rack, so Yeah. So in my various splits, I've always lost the rack. Um, so now I've built up my own rack. [01:01:37] Sean: Well done. [01:01:37] Samantha: Yeah. It is mine. And uh, yeah. And so I paid a lot more attention to it, so I feel a lot more comfortable with the gear and. Yeah. So that gets me more psyched to like, try things. I went out the other day, it was too hot to like properly climb, but I went out and just like sat on bad gear, um, which I've always on purpose wanted to do. Yeah. I placed bad gear and I sat on it on top rope. Oh, okay. Um, yeah, don't be, she's not wreck kids. Um, [01:02:07] Sean: that's a scary thing. Sitting, sitting on, on manky gear. Terrifying. It's a terrifying experience. [01:02:12] Samantha: Nothing, [01:02:13] Sean: I mean, when the top rope's not there. [01:02:15] Samantha: Yeah. I don't like, kind of similar to, to your friend like I am, I had been more scared to fall on my gear and so I'm, I'm climbing ugly 'cause I'm scared to fall and Yeah. And Kevin's so good at sitting on his gear and, uh. But I like don't, it doesn't even occur to me that like, oh, I put these pieces in so that like I could possibly, that's the point of them sit and rest. But now I spent all this money just to like have them. Yeah. They work for the most [01:02:47] Sean: part. They work. [01:02:48] Samantha: Yeah. I, um, that's what I was testing, like even a hu like totally tipped out cam. I can sit on it, I can fall on it like a little fall. Yeah. Like very badly placed, not like, not set. Kind of like sideways. [01:03:04] Sean: Yeah. I can sit on it. It's amazing what will fall. But I mean, user beware. They do, they do fly out [01:03:10] Samantha: obviously. Yeah. But that was, that's the kind of fun things that I feel like. I am building all of these different like skills and confidences and beliefs and understandings about climbing. It's like not just my body now. It's like my body and the gear. And [01:03:32] Sean: And your mind. [01:03:33] Samantha: And my mind. [01:03:34] Sean: That's amazing. It's cool to see the evolution of where you're taking things and uh, yeah, different levels, just personal levels, eh, like, I'm gonna approach it this way now and [01:03:43] Samantha: Yeah. [01:03:43] Sean: Get better. [01:03:45] Samantha: Yeah. [01:03:46] Sean: Um, I guess in closing, what uh, what has climbing given, given you in your life? What do you get out of climbing? [01:03:57] Samantha: I mean, many things that are very easily, like quantifiable, I guess, like community, beautiful travel destinations, like just so many experiences all over the world. I've moved a lot. And when you're a climber, you basically have like a ready-made community. Anywhere you go. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Moving to Norway, it was just like, I've got my people. I, I go to the climbing gym, I show them that I can climb and they're my friends and they take me to the cliff. Um, so it's like [01:04:31] Sean: a tribe, it's like a universal [01:04:32] Samantha: Yeah. And ultimate's somewhat the same, but I feel like climbing is even more so. Um, and like, yeah, generally climbers are like, you know, generally outdoorsy people who mm-hmm. Have often like similar values to me, at least, like, as a starting point. But the term identity comes to mind. [01:04:52] Sean: You're scared of that word. [01:04:54] Samantha: Yeah, I am. I mean, my ident is like a multifaceted thing, obviously, but like, I don't just climb like I am a climber. Like that is how I think of myself. And I think it says a lot about me as a person. Like, I don't just like go to the gym and climb for exercise. Like, I, like am always wanting to challenge myself. I like puzzles and I like problem solving in like both physical and mental spaces. And I don't know, maybe I'm being [01:05:34] Sean: So you, I, I think I maybe missed that. You don't define yourself as a climber. I [01:05:38] Samantha: do define myself as a climber. [01:05:40] Sean: You who does puzzles? Climbing is puzzles. Yes, I suppose it is. It is. So what's the best side of defining yourself as a climber? Because I've been guilty of that too. Even during periods when I haven't been climbing, I'm sort of like, yeah, I'm a climber. And like, wait a minute, I'm not climbing anywhere near as much. Mm-hmm. As I used to or as real climbers are. You know, why, why do I identify myself that way? So what's, yeah, what's the bad side of what? Are you hesitant or uncomfortable? Calling yourself a climber, defining yourself, [01:06:12] Samantha: I guess, because it's something that could, I don't wanna say be taken away, but [01:06:21] Sean: Yeah, I know what you mean. Yep. [01:06:22] Samantha: Like when I was younger, like I identified as a gymnast, I did gymnastics. That was my life. Right, right. And when I couldn't do gymnastics anymore, I was very lost. Um, I mean, I was also like 15. So I think not many 15 year olds are super, like, grounded in who they are as a human. I don't know. Maybe they're, but um, so I guess I'm, I'm scared to define myself by something that isn't like forever guaranteed. I don't know, maybe that's weird, but No, [01:06:54] Sean: I don't think it is at all. [01:06:56] Samantha: But like a climber who doesn't, isn't able to climb. Like [01:07:02] Sean: what do they do then? [01:07:03] Samantha: Yeah. Who are they? [01:07:04] Sean: Yeah. [01:07:05] Samantha: You know, like I was a crazy cat lady and then my cat passed away, and then I'm just a crazy lady. [01:07:11] Sean: Crazy climbing lady throws Frisbees. [01:07:15] Samantha: But yeah, I don't know. [01:07:17] Sean: No, it's, it's an interesting question. I was talking to, uh, a friend yesterday actually, and she was sort of lamenting, not climbing as hard as she did previously, and feeling like the community defines someone's values in terms of how hard they climb. [01:07:36] Samantha: Mm-hmm. [01:07:38] Sean: Is that, is that a, is that a real thing or is that a perception that we uh, uh, an insecurity that we put out there? Because I think that's what you're getting at, isn't it? [01:07:51] Samantha: Yeah, partially. Um, yeah. It's like the difference between doing and being like climbing is something that I do, but it's, I define myself by it. But it's like, it's not actually an intrinsic part of who I am. Mm-hmm. If that makes sense. Um, I think there's some truth to that insecurity that the community values, how strong you are, how well you climb, but I don't think it's the whole picture. I think the community still values people who get out, people who give back, people who are engaged and kind and, um, yeah. I don't think strength is the only thing that, that climbers value, so. Mm-hmm. [01:08:44] Sean: Yeah. I mean, there's that element of trying hard regardless of what you're able to do. Yeah. As you, whatever age, age out, or if you. Get injured in some way, right? Like the, uh, that physical ability can be taken away from anybody. [01:09:00] Samantha: Mm-hmm. And then there's all of the other things that come around climbing, like, you know, organizing things like cleaning climbs or mm-hmm. Trail maintenance. There's like, there's a lot of value in that that, that I think the community recognizes. Um, and there's not always people kind of doing that. [01:09:17] Sean: Mm-hmm. [01:09:19] Samantha: So, yeah. I think effort [01:09:23] Sean: in whatever way, in whatever way it, yeah. You're [01:09:26] Samantha: able to, to do it is, is what is really valued. End. [01:09:32] Sean: Well. There's hope for us yet. Hope for me anyway. [01:09:35] Samantha: Yeah. [01:09:37] Sean: Well, hey, that's, uh, this has been fun. I hope you, uh. I hope you had fun too. [01:09:42] Samantha: Yeah. [01:09:43] Sean: Appreciate you being here and taking the time to share your thoughts and stoke. [01:09:46] Samantha: Mm-hmm. And [01:09:46] Sean: training tips. That was really interesting. [01:09:48] Samantha: I don't think I'm the one who take training tips from, but, [01:09:51] Sean: well, you [01:09:52] Samantha: did well training for non trainers. [01:09:56] Sean: No, I think there's some, there's some gems in there for sure. Yeah. Cool. [01:10:00] Samantha: Well, thank you. [01:10:02] Sean: All right. Thanks again, Samantha. That was truly fascinating. You are seriously making me think about picking up a barbell or maybe doing a hang board session one of these days. If you'd like to learn more about Samantha or other icebox episodes, please check out icebox sessions.ca and if you are interested in sponsoring the show, please let me know. Catch you later. I got to hang with you guys a little bit a month ago maybe. [01:10:33] Samantha: Mm-hmm. [01:10:34] Sean: And I saw Jodi send her. Yay slave. The fashion project, which she just looked like she was hiking it. [01:10:40] Samantha: I know. [01:10:41] Sean: So, good job. Jody. [01:10:44] Samantha: What are you training for? [01:10:45] Sean: What am I training for? [01:10:46] Samantha: Yeah, where do you find your motivation? [01:10:49] Sean: I'm doing the interviewing here. [01:10:50] Samantha: Oops.