Episode 3 - Samantha - Transcript [00:00:00] Samantha: I remember when a friend climbed her first 13 and she was like, yeah, it took me. 50 sessions or something. And I was like, oh, well I could do anything in 50 sessions, [00:00:12] Sean: you know? Yeah. That doesn't count, right? You're like, yeah, you do. Three tries max. Come on. [00:00:17] Samantha: Right. And then at one point I thought, I wonder how hard I could climb. [00:00:25] Sean: Well, it turns out she can climb pretty damn hard. Hey everybody, welcome to another icebox session. My name is Sean Cassidy and we are in conversation with Nova Scotia Rock climbers. Today's guest is Samantha Peverill. Samantha started climbing at the tender age at three and a half, on which she calls that dirty little cliff in Bedford, also known as Eagles Nest last year in 2024. Samantha impressed a lot of people around here and surprised herself, I think by repeating most of the five thirteens in the province. She talks about her motivation to start trying harder. And to not be afraid of failing. And we also get into her recent approaches to training, which has made her stronger and more resilient. This was truly a fun and inspiring conversation for me. I hope you enjoy it too. So what do you think? You gonna be? Okay. [00:01:19] Samantha: I'll survive. This is good for me. Get me outta my comfort zone. [00:01:23] Sean: Well, welcome to the icebox. Where do you find your motivation? [00:01:27] Samantha: I think in order to be motivated to like try hard, trying hard is something I've always struggled with. I need to have like a goal, like an actual project. And that's not, projecting is very new to me, like the last two, three years maybe. I'm training for the first time really ever. And it's working. [00:01:48] Sean: Cool, cool. Yeah. What do you do in the train then? What does your training look like? And I've, this has become kind of a theme. I sort of say I don't train. I pretend not to train. [00:01:59] Samantha: Yeah. [00:02:00] Sean: I don't, 'cause training to me feels like, okay, you're lifting weights and you're doing pull-ups and mm-hmm. Things. So I never do that 'cause that's not very fun. But, you know, I like to keep a base of climbing fitness and that's what I do in here. And you're [00:02:12] Samantha: writing shit down and you're like going into sessions with a goal. So to me that's kind of like training. Okay. I don't know. I mean, yeah. For a really long time I would just go out and like kind of climb whatever top rope the same like roots just to be like out with friends. Like just to be outside and Yeah. And then at one point I thought, I wonder how hard I could climb. Like [00:02:44] Sean: if you tried, [00:02:45] Samantha: if I tried, like if I got on the same climb more than three times, like hard climbs. Yeah. Like when I'm away somewhere. Um, and so yeah, one winter. Jody and I did like a group training through training beta. Okay. So there was, it was like a six week thing. You had a coach, um, and I can't remember, it was a group of like 10 people or something. So you had like your own kind of training plan, but every week you would, would like, meet with this or like virtually meet with this group and she would go over like a topic for the, that week. Um, so maybe it was like resting, like learning how to rest properly or, um, yeah, that's the only one I really remember [00:03:37] Sean: resting. I like that. That's part of my training. Playing time. Yeah. That's [00:03:40] Samantha: a big, a big part of your Yeah. Your time in the icebox. [00:03:44] Sean: That's right. Yeah. Lot of sitting. [00:03:47] Samantha: Uh, but yeah, I like didn't have any, I wish that I had known some of the. I've always been a very intuitive climber. Mm-hmm. But there's all these things you can, techniques and stuff Yeah. That you can actually like teach someone, uh, you know, [00:04:07] Sean: I don't, I don't know what these things are either. See, this is very cool. Yeah. That's the thing. Yeah. [00:04:10] Samantha: So it's like, you know, if you want to Yeah. This is [00:04:13] Sean: neat. [00:04:13] Samantha: Be reaching you should be like [00:04:15] Sean: twisting your hips, I think. Right? [00:04:17] Samantha: Yeah. And like reaching with, you know, you should have the same foot on as like the arm that you're reaching with, right. And it's like, yeah, I do that intuitively, but some people don't. And you can just tell them and then they can do it. And it's like when you're clipping, you should always have like one hip into the wall instead of being like froggy or like something else. Like there's all of these like Yeah. [00:04:38] Sean: Tricks, [00:04:39] Samantha: trick mechanics, like physics, things that people know. Um, [00:04:45] Sean: so have, have you ever ever worked with Heather Reynolds? I mean, she's, she wrote a book on this years ago. No. And she's been coaching and teaching here. Yeah, for many years. [00:04:55] Samantha: Well, I never wanted to be coached. [00:04:57] Sean: Yeah, yeah. ' [00:04:58] Samantha: cause I didn't wanna work hard 'cause I didn't have any goals. So No, I never did. [00:05:04] Sean: So why this is, there's so many interesting things that you're talking about here, because like, wow. For one, I am, I've an intuitive climber as well. [00:05:13] Samantha: Mm-hmm. [00:05:14] Sean: And I've learned some of these little tricks, but I've always just preferred not to, or, or almost believed that there wasn't real tricks to it. Right. It's just like, you kind of work it out when you work on problems. Uh, so that's interesting. So we should talk about that more. But, um, what about, so before you had got into projecting or, or really getting sucked into something, why is it, do you think that you weren't interested in climbing more than a route? More than a couple times? Were you self-sabotaging in some way, do you think? [00:05:47] Samantha: I just thought that if I can't do it on my third go, I can't do it. Like, I didn't understand like, like root specific strength, I guess. Um, and like the value of actually like, 'cause I also have a terrible mind for beta. Partially, I think because I'm an intuitive climber. So it's like, I've never, you don't even know I've really been practicing it for the last couple of years. But like, how, how do people even remember beta? Like, you're like, okay, grab the cramp. Like, which cramp grab it? How, how do you, like you can't write, I can't write that all down. [00:06:28] Sean: I do, [00:06:29] Samantha: but what do you call them? Do you give them little names? Like grab Alfred the cr [00:06:33] Sean: Uh, I, I draw sketches. [00:06:34] Samantha: You draw sketches of a whole climb. [00:06:38] Sean: Uh, well look the crux parts like sins and transgressions. Show me, for example, show me where I've drawn it. Yeah. Where are these sketches? Uh, my book's inside. But, um, yeah, sins and transgressions [00:06:52] Samantha: mm-hmm. [00:06:54] Sean: Have had, did you get, have you got that yet? Yes. Good. So that the cr the lower crux is crazy intensive beta for, for me and I would always forget it. Right. So I have, that section is very clearly sketched them from memory where the little bumps are and mm-hmm. Where the foot's going or, you know, 'cause you know where it slips and, right, right. So, I mean, you don't draw the whole route, but I would definitely sketch things out that helps me rem I'm more of a visual memory person. [00:07:25] Samantha: And do you sketch it out at the Craig? No. Do you hang on the rope? [00:07:28] Sean: No, no, no. Just, [00:07:29] Samantha: well, how do you remember? Uh, [00:07:32] Sean: well if you don't, if you can't remember, but my memory's short, but I'll be, you know, dreaming about it when I get home for a day or two, so, [00:07:42] Samantha: yeah. [00:07:43] Sean: Uh, I, I think if you can't remember what you did it. You didn't figure it out like it was a, it was either too easy for you, so you don't need to remember it. Mm-hmm. Or you didn't actually figure it out. [00:07:56] Samantha: Mm. You didn't [00:07:57] Sean: understand what you were doing. [00:07:58] Samantha: Why not? Yeah. I [00:07:59] Sean: like to write it down. [00:08:00] Samantha: I feel like that's me. Like if, if you want my, if you wanna know how I do something, you have to watch me because I don't know. [00:08:08] Sean: Right. [00:08:08] Samantha: What happened. [00:08:09] Sean: Oh, well that's a great way to be too, I think. Well, I mean, yes, it's, unless [00:08:12] Samantha: you wanna do something better or non-intuitive. Mm. Like sometimes the intuitive way is gets me into a situation I can't get out of. And so that's why like projecting is so hard because I'm like, I can't just follow my intuition. I have to override my intuition in this place and do this other thing. [00:08:32] Sean: Right, right. [00:08:34] Samantha: But yeah, but then I have to like, I don't know, it's almost like, like I have to like get out of flow. Yeah. Engage my like critical brain. [00:08:47] Sean: Yep, yep. [00:08:48] Samantha: And still enjoy it. [00:08:51] Sean: Yeah. Right. So you, you, you, it took a while for you to get to convince yourself that you, you would enjoy that process because [00:09:01] Samantha: Yeah. [00:09:01] Sean: Like, it's not, it's a totally different way of climbing. I, I prefer intuitive on, I like on sighting, I like on, on too, like finding, finding the, [00:09:11] Samantha: yeah. [00:09:12] Sean: Breaking the beta and just kind of visualizing your body as you're in, in it. Mm-hmm. You know? And then, you know, I have, when I've projected, or even that big day, I did it first phase a few years back. Mm. It was, there was very specific beta that I was trying to remember and I'd done those roots so often I was climbing sort of by memory. [00:09:35] Samantha: Right. [00:09:36] Sean: It's kind of, it's sort of neat, but it's not, it doesn't feel like real climbing to me, where when you're just repeating. Yeah. What You've [00:09:45] Samantha: like a routine. [00:09:46] Sean: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. It's like a gymnastics routine or something. [00:09:49] Samantha: Uhhuh, maybe we're getting at something. [00:09:52] Sean: Well, can we back up? Let's hear your, how you got into climbing? Were you, uh, did you start climbing here? I assume you did. [00:09:58] Samantha: I didn't. Well, it depends how, when you define my start. So my parents, my parents have a picture of me climbing when I was three and a half, uh, at, um, that dirty place in Bedford. Eagles Nest. Eagles [00:10:15] Sean: Nest. Yeah. That [00:10:16] Samantha: dirty place in [00:10:17] Sean: Bedford. Delicate. Yeah. [00:10:18] Samantha: Um, yeah, so we, I guess I have like, funny little snippets of memory from that day because my shoe fell off halfway up the wall and I was very upset as a three and a half year old would be. But then there were blueberries at the top, so I was very happy. And that, those are my memories of that day. And I have some photos. So that was [00:10:41] Sean: So your parents took you climbing? My [00:10:42] Samantha: parents took me climbing. Oh. When I was a wee little old babe. [00:10:46] Sean: So have they climbed a lot here? [00:10:49] Samantha: Uh, not a, a lot, but they were present at the, uh, first meeting of Climb Nova Scotia. Okay. [00:11:01] Sean: And, [00:11:02] Samantha: yeah. Yeah. [00:11:03] Sean: This is crazy. You weren't even, you didn't exist yet? [00:11:06] Samantha: No, I don't think I did. [00:11:07] Sean: See, [00:11:08] Samantha: I don't think I did. But yeah, they remember very distinctly that they wanted to call it like, you know, rock climb Nova Scotia. And someone was like, well, what if I wanna climb a tree? And that's why it was climb Nova SCO instead of rock climbing nova all inclusive [00:11:22] Sean: climbing club. I love it. [00:11:22] Samantha: Exactly. Oh God. Um, but yeah, they. Did a fair bit of climbing. My dad did mostly ice climbing, like out west. [00:11:33] Sean: Oh wow, neat. [00:11:33] Samantha: Yeah. Um huh. [00:11:35] Sean: He come from climbing jeans. [00:11:37] Samantha: Yeah, I guess that's true. But I didn't really start until I was in my last semester of my undergrad in Montreal and I joined the, like, outdoor club had this like rock school weekend. Yeah. I remember us like learning how to tie in like indoors the night before and then we all went out and [00:11:59] Sean: Yeah. [00:12:00] Samantha: And I was hooked pretty much immediately. I remember so distinctly there was this climb called Bloody Fingers, but I couldn't do. Mm-hmm. And like it haunted me for years and I went back and did it come on, um, like two years later. It was like a, I think it was like a 10 C or something. I did that weekend. I climbed with those people that I met, um, for the rest of that semester. And then I did a year in Australia. And so when I. Moved out there. I like found a house that was like three climbers and I moved in with them and then, yeah, I had everything I needed and I just, yeah, I just climbed and climbed. [00:12:43] Sean: Was that af shortly after university then you graduated? That was, I went to Australia. [00:12:48] Samantha: That was my, um, it was an exchange through university, through my undergrad. Oh. And then through that I met like climbing dirt bags and I would just like fly to wherever they were. Um, and they would have like climbs picked out that they thought I would like [00:13:02] Sean: in all In Australia? [00:13:03] Samantha: Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So I was super spoiled. I've always been super spoiled. And then I came home, started climbing here, and it was back in like the original ground zero days. [00:13:17] Sean: Oh. Ground zero one. So there's two ground zero, two versions of that gym for people that don't know, [00:13:21] Samantha: right? Yeah. This was the pod of pain version. Oh, [00:13:25] Sean: yes. Yeah. Yeah. Very much like the icebox, actually a [00:13:28] Samantha: little, yeah. You know? Yeah. Actually very much like the ice box, kind of a [00:13:31] Sean: tight, tight space. [00:13:32] Samantha: You had to climb up to it. The first people I met were like, yeah, Adam Benjamin, Luke Buxton. Um, so I started climbing with them. I mean, I guess I've never really given it up. Um, but it, it does compete with Ultimate for like the season and my energy and time. [00:13:51] Sean: Yeah. So like, you and I have crossed paths here and there over the years, but we don't know each other well, and the things I know about you are your addiction to climbing, Frisbee playing. [00:14:03] Samantha: Yep. Mm-hmm. And do you [00:14:04] Sean: love cats? [00:14:05] Samantha: Yeah. Those are all accurate. Yeah. Right. Aw, that's all you need to know. So, [00:14:08] Sean: uh, yeah. Tell, tell us a bit about the Frisbee stuff. You were, were you playing, were you doing Frisbee on the weekends in [00:14:15] Samantha: Ottawa? Yeah, I was in Ottawa. Yeah. Frisbee's a funny beast. It becomes very all consuming because it, 'cause it's a team sport. So your team becomes your like friends and then it just becomes your life. Like, so when Roger and I got together, he climbed and played Frisbee, but we started, well we evolved into this team called, who wants to party. Uh, [00:14:44] Sean: did Roger name this team? [00:14:46] Samantha: I dunno if he, yeah, I think he did. I can see [00:14:48] Sean: him naming them. [00:14:48] Samantha: Yeah. Um, but we were like the perfect balance of like party and also [00:14:56] Sean: nice. [00:14:57] Samantha: Good at Ultimate, but never taking ourselves too seriously. [00:15:00] Sean: Yeah, that's the best combo. [00:15:01] Samantha: Oh my God, it was so good. Yeah, so we were a mixed team and um, we like traveled and Roger and I would like tack on like climbing trips. So we would like, went to this tournament in Maine, um, and then we would like go to Rumney at the same time or like, you know, we had tournaments in Moncton and we'd go to Wellsford and we just, like, even, even when we were on our big road trip, we picked up with a team from Seattle in Vegas for this tournament. Just like the night before we're like, oh, there's a tournament happening. Like, maybe though, maybe there's a team that needs people. And so Yeah. And in, yeah, in Chattanooga too, we played, so. Wow. Yeah. [00:15:44] Sean: So you guys are, the teams are probably stoked to have you guys join 'cause I'm guessing you guys are pretty good. [00:15:50] Samantha: Yeah, and we play very different roles. Like I. He's a very good like thrower. Mm-hmm. Um, and I am a very quick runner, not surpris. Surprised. Yeah. So like even the, just the two of us, like as a pair, we were big point scorers. Oh right, right, right, right. He would throw and I would run anyway, why are we talking about this? But yeah. 'cause I asked about Frisbee, so Yeah. Frisbee takes up time and energy. 'cause [00:16:19] Sean: like, how does Frisbee relate to climbing? Or does it, is it, is it totally opposite? Complimentary in some way or, [00:16:28] Samantha: um, it's pretty opposite. I think having started to do a little bit more like weight stuff, which I started for. Climbing has been beneficial for ultimate [00:16:46] Sean: weight stuff. I'm just gonna write this down. Weight stuff. Write that down. Training ideas, weight stuff, weight stuff. And, uh, don't face the wall all the time. I gotta turn my hips. [00:16:57] Samantha: This is gonna be brilliant for your, uh, climbing. Finally, the [00:17:03] Sean: next level for me. [00:17:04] Samantha: Finally gonna accomplish the goals you've been aiming for all this time. [00:17:07] Sean: Yeah. [00:17:08] Samantha: Uh, [00:17:09] Sean: so I took, I went to see, uh, uh, took a course from Heather Reynolds [00:17:14] Samantha: mm-hmm. A [00:17:14] Sean: few years ago because, uh, I was trying to get my game on, you know? Yeah. I'm trying [00:17:18] Samantha: to bulk up, [00:17:19] Sean: not, no, not bulk up. Just learned, uh, sneaky techniques. [00:17:23] Samantha: I have a sarcasm obviously keep saying [00:17:25] Sean: I'm not bugged up. And, uh, it was kind of, it was kind of fun. But, so there's a small group of people. Most of them were little kids and. So I, I dam she said, someone get on the wall and climb. And so I climb like super smooth and got through these things like this is awesome technique, right? And then Heather immediately points out all the things I'm doing wrong. He's like, see how he's like full frontal and he is like three points of call that or whatever. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, I need some more checks. So, weights. Huh? Weights? [00:17:58] Samantha: Yeah, weights. [00:18:00] Sean: Um, [00:18:03] Samantha: yeah, so when Jody and I did this group training, that was part of it was, um, like actual weightlifting, which I had never done and hadn't really seen much value in in the past. [00:18:18] Sean: Okay. So tell me, try to convince me that that's important. [00:18:23] Samantha: So for me it's been most important for injury prevention. So the thing that the train the coach was saying was, the way you get strong is to go two years without being injured. Um, [00:18:38] Sean: yeah, that's so true. Yeah. [00:18:40] Samantha: Yeah. So it's like it doesn't make sense to super push yourself and then get injured and then get set back. Yeah. It's like just consistently like following like the training plan, even if it's not like epic. The plan and sticking to it is so much of the, like, the reason for the success. So the resting is actually super important. [00:19:08] Sean: Thank you. Yeah. Write that down. Wait, so this is, this is cross that out resting. [00:19:13] Samantha: No, but you can't get strong if you don't rest. And [00:19:16] Sean: yeah, [00:19:16] Samantha: she convinced us, which was difficult, that you need at least two full rest days a week. [00:19:23] Sean: Yeah, I believe that. Yeah. [00:19:24] Samantha: And this is one of the places where Ultimate and climbing. Clash. [00:19:31] Sean: Right? Because I always thought it doesn't allow any rest days. [00:19:33] Samantha: Well, I always thought like ultimate is my legs climbing's mostly arms or whatever. Um, but fully resting means like your heart rate does not go up. Mm-hmm. You do not do anything other than a walk or maybe some stretching. And so yeah, it wasn't, it was not in my nature to take full rest days. Uh, 'cause everything I love to do is physical activity. [00:20:01] Sean: So the on the weight program, what do you, this is specific for climbing, I think the training program you and Jody were doing. [00:20:08] Samantha: Yeah. It was specific for climbing. Yeah. So what, what were [00:20:11] Sean: you doing with weights? [00:20:12] Samantha: Well, we were doing a lot. So, um, like bench press was super, like the kind of the, the usuals like bench press, deadlift. Back squats. And then also like Bulgarian split squats, which are evil and like more kind of one sided things. So like, you know, like the one leg mm-hmm. Deadlift. So like kind of trying to deal with all of your [00:20:41] Sean: Oh, stabilizing muscles. Yeah. Stabilizing muscles and [00:20:44] Samantha: like, like things that you do to compensate for weakness. Yes, yes. Uh, so yeah, there were just, all these muscles, they weren't doing what they were supposed to be doing. Like my glutes for example. They just didn't wanna. [00:21:01] Sean: Job. Yeah. I think every has weak glutes. [00:21:03] Samantha: Yeah. It was like a real problem. And so weak glutes was like, then my knees were hurting and so, you know, like drop knees and knee bars and anything knee related. Hmm. Was really painful. It was just 'cause my, 'cause I have a lazy ass. [00:21:18] Sean: You mean more things to write down Because my knees are a little, a little titchy. Yeah. Uh, [00:21:24] Samantha: and it's so rarely the actual knee. [00:21:26] Sean: How did you notice the benefits of that training on your climbing? When, when and how [00:21:33] Samantha: So? The weights were great, but I think, uh. The thing that she made us do. 'cause she was virtual, was taking videos of ourselves. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. And so there were all sorts of different exercises and mostly they were done on the kilter board because that's like consistent across like, so she could look, she knew what the route was at the angle. That makes sense. Angle makes sense. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So one of the things we had to do was, uh, well, this isn't how I, this was how I noticed that my internal sense of how a climb went and the actual objective sense of how a climb went. Mm-hmm. Were not in alignment. So I would climb something. You come down and you say like, how you think it? Went like, how well you performed. Like, you know, you showed like a one or a five or whatever to the camera, and then later you watch it and it's like, I thought I was like so shaky and like, whatever, because I never believed people when they were like, oh. I was like, oh my God. I was so scared up there and like, oh, you couldn't tell. Right. And I just thought they were being nice to me. [00:22:47] Sean: Okay. But like, so you underestimated how well you were climbing it? Yeah. Is that, is that right? [00:22:52] Samantha: Yeah. [00:22:52] Sean: Right. [00:22:53] Samantha: And so as a result, I wouldn't try anything harder because I thought like, oh, if that felt so terrible, then why would I try like that V five felt awful. Like I'm not looking for a V six on the kilter, but it didn't look as awful as it felt. And she was able to like also point out things that I would consistently, I wanted to find more weaknesses to be perfectly honest. Um, the biggest one that came. App was that I am not dynamic as a climber. We sound very similar actually. Yeah. And the kilter was super, super good for that. Oh. Like it definitely encourages a more dynamic style. [00:23:39] Sean: Mm-hmm. [00:23:41] Samantha: And so yeah, I practiced moving faster, climbing a bit more dynamically. Yeah. And, uh, then I went to Mexico for like two and a half months. And when I was in El Alto, it was like everything I learned on the kilter was fully applicable Wow. To the stuff I was climbing. [00:24:05] Sean: So dyna wing to holds and is that what you mean, moving [00:24:08] Samantha: more dynamically? Yes. Okay. Like, not like. Feet off sort of Dinos, but like I had always believed it was more efficient to move more slowly and in control. [00:24:19] Sean: Yeah. [00:24:19] Samantha: And sometimes that's not the case. And that was a hard realization for me. Um, sometimes you just, you just gotta go, you just gotta got a [00:24:32] Sean: nice, yeah. Yeah. I, I remember, uh, Nick Sagar when mm-hmm. Him and Heather had a gym in, uh, bear's leg. Do you remember what that was called? [00:24:43] Samantha: Beyond, [00:24:43] Sean: beyond Gravity? Yeah. Or indoor Adrenaline. One of those two [00:24:46] Samantha: Beyond Gravity. [00:24:47] Sean: Anyways, Nick was bouldering on a steep wall, and he was climbing very dynamically. Like he would, I think it was dynos, he was kind of throwing, but, you know, just catching, barely catching the next one and moving on to the, the hole beyond it. And it was like a whole, you know, mind blown kind of moment. For me, because I'm, I come from a very old school style of climbing. Yeah. Which is static and controlled and flowy and mm-hmm. You know, um, but yeah, there's, there's a lot of different ways to, to do it better. Ways to do it [00:25:22] Samantha: Well, it depends, like, yeah. It's just nice to be able to do both and know when one is more efficient and when it's not. There is an exercise she got us to do called, well, she called them sloth monkeys. So it's like you pick a climb, like you pick up blue or whatever, and you climb it like a sloth. And then you, once you drop down, you climb it like very, like dynamically, but like using momentum [00:25:49] Sean: orangutan. [00:25:50] Samantha: The momentum is the important [00:25:52] Sean: right [00:25:52] Samantha: piece. It's like, not necessarily the, that you're like jumping or anything, it's just that you're not like stopping on each hold. You're like carrying the momentum throughout. And it was a really fun. Exercise to be like, wow, I climbed that climb in two completely different ways, [00:26:11] Sean: probably with a lot less energy on the second one. [00:26:14] Samantha: Well, yeah. I'm guessing like on it, depending on how the climb was like set up, like sometimes that just didn't work. Um, but you got a sense like doing those regularly on different types of climbs of like, oh, this is one of those times that it just makes sense to like go with my momentum. [00:26:31] Sean: Uh, super cool. [00:26:32] Samantha: Yeah, so it just like little things like that I didn't, you know, I didn't overhaul my entire way of climbing or anything like that, but, [00:26:42] Sean: but did you feel stronger, so you talked about the, the video referencing [00:26:46] Samantha: mm-hmm. [00:26:47] Sean: Helped you, I guess, have confidence that you could climb harder. [00:26:51] Samantha: Yeah. [00:26:51] Sean: And the kind of the more dynamic, dynamic approach helped you in El Alto. Mm-hmm. Um, what about the. Like the weights that you're talking about, those lifts and stuff? Yes. Where did that, where did you really notice that? [00:27:04] Samantha: I mean, so the weights and the like, uh, hang boarding, I'd never done any hang boarding before. And doing it in a, a way where someone was like telling me what to do was super helpful. So yeah, again, like on that Mexico trip, like my fingers just felt so strong. [00:27:25] Sean: Very cool. [00:27:26] Samantha: And so, yeah, I was just being stronger, made it easier to get, like, to feel like I had endurance, if that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So like the endurance came quickly because I was using less energy to do each move. [00:27:46] Sean: I always think strong fingers is like safety. You're, I feel safer when my fingers are really strong. Yeah. 'cause you can hang out longer, you don't panic. Mm-hmm. So therefore you. You know? [00:27:57] Samantha: Yeah. Get all [00:27:57] Sean: pumped out and you're relaxed. [00:28:00] Samantha: Mm-hmm. [00:28:00] Sean: So, no, this is inspiring. So right now, do you, like, do you have a training program that you keep up regularly of, of all those things? What are you doing? And maybe it's a different seasonal thing. Maybe this is a winter thing. I don't know. [00:28:14] Samantha: Yeah. Mostly I try and train in the winter. I think the thing that you, that's really interesting about climbing as a re like as compared to other sports that people like train and climb and like mm-hmm. Is that we don't have obvious, like peaks and valleys, especially people who climb indoors a lot. Like you're people are trying to like peak all the time constantly when it's when you're climbing. Yeah. And it's just not possible. So, yeah. So it's. In the summertime when I'm just climbing a lot outdoors, like I try not to do any training 'cause it's, it's not the time to like get stronger in that way. So I do have, I did, um, a lattice training. They have this like, self-guided one. They make the program for you, so you tell them what you want, you do some testing. So they give you like 12 weeks of training and you put it in your schedule, like what, you know, they give you guidelines, like, don't do this on the same day as this. Um, but uh, that was actually super helpful for finding some weaknesses that I didn't exactly know about. Um, so pull-ups, I'm really bad at pull-ups compared to like people who climb my grade. Yeah. Um, me too. And then this one was like. Okay. Your fingers are strong enough. Yeah, but my open hand was terrible. [00:29:52] Sean: Oh, my open hand's good. [00:29:53] Samantha: I like half cramp. I think I could hold, I could add like 40 pounds or something and hang in on like a 20 mil for 10 seconds. I couldn't hold body weight with open hand. Isn't that crazy? Wow. Like, how did that even come to me? So, [00:30:11] Sean: yeah. That's neat. Yeah. You're dependent on that one. One way of, [00:30:14] Samantha: yeah. [00:30:15] Sean: Cri, although for me, I open in everything now just 'cause of historic, [00:30:19] Samantha: that's what people say, [00:30:21] Sean: ruptures. Mm-hmm. Um, and I'm terrible. Like I sometimes you have to like bear down and crimp and I'm, I don't have what I used to have. [00:30:28] Samantha: Yeah. [00:30:28] Sean: Yeah. [00:30:29] Samantha: Well, I didn't even, before I did the training, um, with Jody, I didn't even really know. [00:30:37] Sean: Yeah. What? Sure. What your, [00:30:39] Samantha: what, what grips were like, they were like three finger drag. I was like, I don't know what that is. Like, I had to look it up and like, I was like, I don't really get it. And so it, one of the things I really liked with that training was little things to add to your warmup. So it's like, okay, while you're climbing this one, do it all open hand or do it all three finger drag. Or, you know, like, so you're, you're like tuning into different things or you know, like there's this thing where you like look at the hold and then you look away and put your foot on it. [00:31:15] Sean: Okay, cool. Yeah. Or [00:31:16] Samantha: you put your foot on it and you're not allowed to adjust. [00:31:19] Sean: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or things like that. So I thought those were all little games, [00:31:23] Samantha: little games to like, make warmup fun and like kind of tune into the stuff that like maybe you just do unconsciously, like half crimping everything apparently. Yeah. [00:31:31] Sean: Yeah. [00:31:32] Samantha: And my pinches, my pinch strength was super weak. So I started working on that and that, that was super helpful in, um, El Selto where there was like lots of tufa. So yeah, I, I have been finding little things to work on, but really so much of it was just not being willing to try hard. [00:31:53] Sean: And now that you feel stronger, you're more willing to try hard or you've just, or you've got over that hurdle and [00:32:00] Samantha: Yeah, I got over that hurdle. Yeah. And I'm willing to fail. [00:32:05] Sean: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because you, back to back up way earlier in the conversation, you said that when you were traveling a lot, you would basically onsite everything and you're climbing every day and kee