Episode 9 - Henry Morrow === [Henry] : And I think the foothold broke and I held it, you know... iron cross there and shoulder just ...... came out I was like, oh man, what a bummer. Boulderers, you know, get outta your comfort zone. Imagine if there was like more than four moves, maybe eight moves - it gets bigger!! I think Nova Scotia has lines that could stack up internationally. [Sean] : Well, you don't hear that very often!! Hey everybody, welcome to another Icebox Session. My name is Sean Cassidy and today we are talking with the infectiously stoked Henry Morrow. Henry offers a bit of counterpoint to my last guest who is not so keen on trad climbing. I was hoping he would wax poetic about how fun and safe trad climbing can be. But mostly he just talks about his various epics. He shares some exciting stories about deep water soloing along the coast of Nova Scotia, and we also talk a little bit about the allure of climbing. Which in some cases can replace more harmful addictions. So my bouldering friends sit back, and prepare to be freaked out! All right. Well, you ready to go? [Henry] : Yeah, I'm ready. [Sean] : Welcome to the Icebox. [Henry] : Thank you. It's an honor to be here. [Sean] : You climbed a little bit before our session, which is the first time any guest has [Henry] : really [Sean] : bothered to do that. [Henry] : How can you look at this incredible wall and not just be drawn to it? It's fantastic. [Sean] : Thank you. [Henry] : Great holds. I love the real rock holds on there. feels like history is soaked into it, you know? I love it up here. Thanks for having me. [Sean] : it's an honor to have you, so we're newly acquainted. I got to meet you last summer. [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : My buddy Rich LaPaix convinced me to do a climbing trip, which he's always like: "Cassidy, let's go do this." And I'm like, yeah, maybe. [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : So we were gonna go to Cape Clear, and I think you guys were too. Maybe [Henry] : we were gonna go to Cape Clear. Yes. But the weather up was a little bit more precarious than New Brunswick. So we shifted to Red Rock in New Brunswick, not to be confused with Nevada. [Sean] : Right. And is it Red Rock or Red Rocks? [Henry] : Oof. Nobody, that's a question for nobody, smarter people than me. [Sean] : So that was a really cool trip. 'cause one I got to meet you and Graham Dexter was there. Yes. You're like a, you're like a team. You two, it seems [Henry] : We are a bit of a team. Yeah, No, we've done a lot together deal. He's, he's a little bit more occupied than I am with kids and stuff, so he, gets out whenever he can, but, yeah, he was very intrigued to climb with you guys, so I couldn't, keep him away. [Sean] : It was so fun. And you guys were just so stoked in, I mean, the climbing's great there, the setting with a beautiful camping spot in the grass there and camp fire and five minute approach to the cliff. It was really fun. I was just impressed like meeting you guys and you're both so, you, there's a lot of people out there now just so into climbing here and it's so exciting for me to see that happening. [Henry] : I appreciate that. Yeah. No, it's, there's, this whole new community here that's, it's pretty great. I mean, we've been. I've been climbing for, about a little over 10 years, and then more seriously for about the last seven and yeah, the, once I got into it, just [Sean] : Where did you start? [Henry] : started at Seven Bays in a bit of ground zero, so. [Sean] : Oh, okay. Oh really? [Henry] : Yeah. Yeah. [Sean] : So just before it was, well, [Henry] : just before it was closed. Yeah. [Sean] : Huh. And, Seven Bays at Gottingen probably? [Henry] :  Seven Bays at Gottingen . Yeah. [Sean] : Yeah. Okay. [Henry] : Yeah, [Sean] : yeah, It's funny, like all these people like yourself included climate for seven or 10 years still. I just heard of you like last year. [Henry] : I know. That's the thing is like hiding under a rock. [Sean] : Well, yeah, there's, but no moreso I've been under a rock. I think that's where accurate. [Henry] : Yeah. I mean, it's, I don't know. It feels like the community has been growing a lot more though in the last, two to three years. Even from my short stint in it. [Sean] : how do you see evidence of that or what do what, what makes you say that? [Henry] : A lot more people at the crags. like that's, what I've witnessed it [Sean] : cool. that's cool, [Henry] : you know, and yeah, like before years ago, like when we were just starting out on ropes, like getting out there and there was just nobody. And especially on the after work grind, when you get out there and you're just booking it in, trying to like soak in two climbs before you have to go home and sleep at 11 o'clock and eating fast food to try and survive. There's people doing that, which is crazy. [Sean] : Wow. [Henry] : you know, more than just a handful, I think. and that's really cool to see. And then, Like crowds sometimes, you know? [Sean] : Well, I've heard there's crowds at Sorrows. [Henry] : There's always crowds at Sorrows. Yeah. [Sean] : And probably the Spot, Hey? Is that, [Henry] : I think, yeah, it's the, there's, ability to set up top ropes there pretty easily. It dries off super quick....good, area to hang out and pretty attainable grades for people to jump on. and you know, the Castle's obviously, I think a pretty good starter spot as well. [Sean] : Well, my favorite spot has always been First Face for many years. [Henry] : Yes. [Sean] : And even that spot, like when I've gone there over the last few years, I've, mostly what I've been doing is I'll go in and top rope solos and stuff and I was in there and there's another guy, top rope soloing, and he's only been climbing for a year or two. [Henry] : I know that nuts. [Sean] : a fellow named Brad, I can't remember his last name, but [Henry] : yeah, super impressive new one. I was out there last weekend and you know, there, there was a bunch of people that I didn't come with. I was like, really? Yeah. [Sean] : What were they on? [Henry] : are you, [Sean] : so you, and you took, young Isaac out there, I think? [Henry] : Yes, I did. [Sean] : Which is cool. [Henry] : Isaac Fillmore. [Sean] : Isaac Fillmore [Henry] : big up [Sean] : and [Henry] : come meet him. Yeah, you definitely should. he's, he's a super strong climber. He's been, you know, hitting a lot of the classic boulders, but I'm trying to get 'em on the ropes a bit. That's what I like to see. And, you know, just trying to open a door. I know when I was first getting into it, it, it seemed really daunting to just it's a step. it's a big step and, without, you know, mentorship or somebody kind of showing you what to do. I mean, when Graham and I got into it, it was shameful to say, but a lot of it was just trial and error. We were just doing it all ourselves, which, you know, trying to do as much research as possible. But, yeah, making some mistakes and learning from 'em a lot of the time. So [Sean] : that's, well, you're both alive, so that's good. [Henry] : Yeah, exactly. You're a testament to that. So [Sean] : did you meet people, did they take you out to teach you stuff or No. You were honestly just learning [Henry] : learn by [Sean] : yourself. [Henry] : Yeah, just a hundred percent around. And then sometimes we'd see somebody at the crack and they'd be like, how about this instead? And we'd be like, oh, thank you. That's a good idea. You know? and, yeah. So, yeah, and I mean, again, did a lot of research and we're trying to do things as safe as possible. I think it was less unsafe than it was, really inefficient. Most of the things we were doing. Say that again. [Sean] : It's less [Henry] : so, so it was less unsafe than it was incredibly inefficient. [Sean] : Oh. So, yeah. [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : that's, interesting. Yeah. [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : Yeah. I just had a chat with Todd Foster, last month. [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : And he talked about his early learning curve was. Maybe similar or even worse, there was nobody around Right. Him that could tell him what to do. [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : And he would take like most of the data set up, top rope anchor, [Henry] : just, you know, making a piano out of it. Yeah. No, it's what we were doing. [Sean] : Triple, double, triple. [Henry] : Yeah. Everything up. [Sean] : Yeah. [Henry] : The only knot we know is a figure eight. We've got seven figure eights in this anchor. Yeah. [Sean] : And no rope left. [Henry] : Yeah, exactly. So I mean that, it was interesting. And, yeah, so I mean, knowing more now, I mean hopefully knowing more now, which I think I do, [Sean] : you seem, you seem pretty safe. [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : More or less. [Henry] : A lot of less for sure. again, still alive, but you know, when, people show interest or have a spark of interest in getting out, I try to. [Sean] : Well, that's good. So you're paying it forward with Isaac maybe, and, [Henry] : yeah. Yeah. And others just awesome. And people, you know, I love climbing. I'm crazy about it, and I, like being able to share it, so, [Sean] : yeah. [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : Yeah. I feel like in hindsight I didn't do that enough. Take out new people. Maybe I did. I mean, maybe they just weren't interested. I can't remember. [Henry] : That's happened a bunch where people were showing this. [Sean] : Don't, do, yeah. Don't, [Henry] : I mean, when, I remember the first time I climbed outdoors, I was just like, oh yeah, this forever. I mean, as a lot of us are, and just like instant obsession and haven't stopped since. [Sean] : Where was, where was that first experience outside? [Henry] : I think it was actually at Sorrows. Yeah. And then, you know [Sean] : what a spot! [Henry] : A day or two later, Virginia slab, and then days after that, you know, getting too big for our britches and trying stuff that was above our pay grade and [Sean] : jumping in the deep end. [Henry] : Yeah, exactly. Yeah. As you do. [Sean] : Jumping in, well, since I said that, so when we were in Red Rock. [Henry] : Yeah, that's a good segue. [Sean] : When we were in Red Rock, and we got to know you guys a little bit, you and Graham, 'cause I think Rich had run into, you guys up the Musquodoboit Valley, and maybe we'll talk about that a bit later. [Henry] : Yeah, for sure. [Sean] : you guys are telling some stories and then pretty soon it came out that you guys were both into Deep Water soloing and had been developing stuff. And it twigged a memory for me. 'cause a few years ago I thought I remembered a post on the rock climbing Nova Scotia page about somebody, planning to, to, do a video on yeah. Deep water soloing. And they're developing these areas and I'm like, who are these nut bars? That's what my thought was. And lo and behold, I got to meet those nut bars in New Brunswick. [Henry] : Yeah, I know. It was funny you said, you were like, yeah, I heard something about some guys doing this thing. I was like, that's me. Yeah. Yeah. you know, yeah. It's, been an interesting ride with that. For the last couple summers we've tried to get into it more and more. [Sean] : is it a real thing? It just sounds I mean, I know we're surrounded by water everywhere, so it makes sense on some level, but, [Henry] : well, that's the thing. [Sean] : Any place I've been is like, I don't know. There's not, many cliffs. [Henry] : No. [Sean] : Straight up out of the water. [Henry] : No, there's really not. no, So, you know, it was, actually Graham who we were, I think we were going out to Crow's Nest and he was like, ah, there's this little deep, water soloing thing that he had been, working on. And then, I, we, took the boat over there and it's this little traverse thing and, I got on it and, I was like, oh, that's a cool idea. [Sean] : Uhhuh, [Henry] : this is okay, but I think we can do better. [Sean] : So did you fall on that? isn't the point? I feel like the point of deep water soiling is actually a fall in water. [Henry] : Oh, yeah. That's the thing. I did not fall on that one, but I think I might have jumped in afterwards [Sean] : just for fun. [Henry] : Yeah. But yeah, you know, the, point is to find something hard enough that you might biff off of it. [Sean] : Right. [Henry] : And [Sean] : so what have you found, what have you found out there? [Henry] : Well, [Sean] : or is it top secret so far? [Henry] : No, it's not top secret at all. the short answer is not much. [Sean] : So the video is canceled. [Henry] : No, we got all of the footage. like there's, so, there's a couple spots. I'll get into it. so the, video thing, [Sean] : give us the dirt. Give us the dirt -- the water - give us the water. [Henry] : Yeah. We, planned on making this video. A good friend Turner Kinal? [Sean] : Yeah. [Henry] : Yes. he's a surfer. [Sean] : Well, I saw him post, about it. I, was, yeah. Keep going. Turner. [Henry] : Okay. So he's a videographer. Photographer. Okay, cool. Does a lot in the surf community. [Sean] : Yeah. [Henry] : And, he had talked about, I had already gotten into the deep water soloing things and was trying to convince people to do it with me for years prior. we got a small grant from a podcast called Night of Adventure. Oh yeah. Great. Who gave me a little grant to go and do this thing. Yeah, And I was like, yes, maybe with a little bit of skin in the game and somebody with a camera I'll be able to convince some people to come and do this ridiculous nonsense with me. So, After Graham had showed me, that one spot in Terrance Bay, I got a, I've got a very obsessive mindset. [Oh, I can tell, yeah.] And, went crazy, trying to find places on Google Maps using, you know, trying to use resources. I'm a land surveyor, for my work and, trying to use Lidar footage and stuff to try and find elevation high enough off of coast side things that it might be good. Anyways, it was blowing up Graham's phone nonstop texting him, random grainy pictures from Google Maps, being like, what do you think about this? [Sean] : He'd be like, I'm in. [Henry] : Well, a lot of the time he'd say, that's nothing. You're an idiot. But, so anyways, I had found one spot that I had piqued some particular interest called Blue Island off the coast of Shelburne. And this was a number of years ago. It was during COVID and, everyone had just gotten back to work. But if you got COVID, I still got two weeks off to quarantine. So I got COVID and I [So you went out rambling outside?] I was, it was in the middle of May and I was like, I can't sit in my house for two weeks. It's ridiculous. Yeah. I gotta go and do something. so I was sick as a dog and took my, you know, stupid inflatable kayak to Shelburne and paddled out in the middle of the, it is, you know, probably about, I think three kilometers or something off the coast. And I was paddling there, dude, there's a bunch of waves. It was nonsense. I was sick as a dog. Got out there, oh my god, on the island. Got swamped, biffed into the water, like my rope got. So I think I lost my rope, actually. I took a rope out there to rappel a bunch of stuff. Anyways, got back in the boat and found this crazy chasm on the side of, the island that was, you know, I think it's, not huge. It's probably like six, seven meters tall or something. Okay. but Beautiful face like overhung, just enough that it would be challenging and you're gonna drop straight into the water. [Sean] : Perfect. [Henry] : Deep water, and you're just super stoked. Yeah, that's the thing. You don't want shallow water soloing, which I find is most of the problem is it's either so shallow that you're, it's just free soloing at that point, or it's not interesting enough to climb. So it's a little niche thing. [Sean] : Yeah. [Henry] : Anyways, so got out there in the summer when it was less freezing and, put up some cool climbs there. It was really fun. [Sean] : by yourself? [Henry] : No, me and Graham did some trips out there and took some other people. It's great island for camping on. But yeah, the problem is that it's a two hour drive and then a half hour boat ride, whatever seafaring vessel you have to get out there. [Sean] : Yeah. And well longer if you're paddling a kayak cand capsizing. [Henry] : So, exactly. and it's a pretty hard sell, so not a lot of people want to do it. and then the other really cool spot we found, is in Cape Breton. It's spot called Squeaker Hole. [Sean] : Oh, I've heard of that. [Henry] : Yeah. And some people have done, some little climbs there, some easier stuff. But we were like, [Sean] : yeah, I think like some super old, like Clarence Barrett would've done stuff out there, maybe. [Henry] : Yeah. And so we wanted to, you know, get some concrete stuff and, yeah, there's, some really cool climbs out there. And we took a boat around the, Celtic Lodge and found some other cliffs there. [Sean] : Oh yeah. Yeah. That's pretty good granite there. Yeah, I think [Henry] : it's not bad. It is a little chossy in some spots, but [Sean] : it's Cape Breton. [Henry] : Yeah, it's Cape Breton. Exactly. It's Cape Breton. So yeah. that's in the experience, here. I've always got my eye out for more stuff. I've been, still haphazardly looking for anytime I'm out in a spot and I'm like, oh, that looks like a, [Sean] : how many areas do you think you've identified or [Henry] : personally? I think it's mainly just the good ones or threes have been the two or three. yeah. [Sean] : Yeah. Do you ever try you know, Rch is always game for new stuff. A few years back we were climbing at Shiprock and we, you know, rope climbed and then at the end of the day, he was keen to do some deep water solo and on the right side. Have you been there? Have you climbed at Ship Rock? [Henry] : I've thought about it over there and I've climbed at Ship Rock a few times. Okay. But I've never tried deep water soloing there - is it deep enough? [Sean] : Well, at high tide maybe. [Henry] : Well, that was one of the funny things about Blue Island. We went back there while we were doing this video and a bunch of the cliff had fallen off and so it made, it, it didn't affect the climbs, but it made it shallow. [Sean] : Okay. Okay. [Henry] : And it was only climbable at high tide. And then we were there to make this video, which, which again never came to fruition 'cause Turner got busy and whatever. So we had to climb it at one o'clock in the morning. With a bunch of spotlights on the rock. in order to try and get that at night, which was super spooky. I'm a terrible swimmer. [Sean] : Oh, because you're, you were camping, you planned to do this. Why couldn't you just wait for the, a high tide during the day? [Henry] : Well, it was, we got there at 3:00 PM being like, okay, we're gonna be able to climb. And we're like, oh, it's super shallow, so we've gotta wait until the next tide, which is 1:00 AM [Sean] : and you, but you happen to have a spotlight with you. [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : Which is interesting. [Henry] : Yeah. I think with I think somebody had arrived to the island prior to us. Okay. And we're like, man, oh, I see. It's shallow. And you're like, oh man. And so we went, really went to Canadian Tire and bought a bunch of spotlights and I think we returned them the next day. [Sean] : so there's a bit of a crew that's into this stuff? [Henry] : Yeah. Or curious about it. Yeah. some friends who are curious. I mean, anybody who's game, I will take them out anytime. If you're willing to drive. Either five hours to Cape Breton or two hours to, to Shelburne. [Sean] : So did you, did you have to give the money back to Night of Adventure? [Henry] : Well, no, I, I think, [Sean] : or did you do a talk? I actually saw an ad for, [Henry] : I did do a talk which I think may have, you know, smoothed things over. Yeah. [Sean] : Oh, they got their money's worth. Yeah. Yeah, [Henry] : exactly. You know, we, did the thing, [Sean] : huh? [Henry] : Kind of. But I had a couple, a couple climbers come out to, show support while I did my talk, which is nice. [Sean] : Oh, good. [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : Cool. So you, you mentioned you've, you got started at Seven Bays and Ground Zero a little bit. [Henry] : Yes. [Sean] : And who took you, how did you get to Sorrows End? Who do you, who took you outside? [Henry] : Me and Graham, just by ourselves. [Sean] : You just went by yourselves. [Henry] : Yeah. We just went and bought a rope and some quick draw [Sean] : some of that yellow nylon rope. Yeah. at Canadian Tire, that kind of thing? [Henry] : Yeah. Yeah. No, we. It was. So, yeah, I had not been serious climbing for a couple years. I was really into it, but, at the time I was not sober and that would get in the way of things a bit. And then, yeah, close to seven years ago now, I got sober and just [ good for you] fell completely into climbing. [Sean] : Nice. Did that, was climbing, did climbing help you to get sober for [Henry] : Yeah, no. A hundred percent. Yeah. I find for a multitude of reasons. I mean, you know, after drinking, you know, your whole world's kind of encompassed by that and the people you're surrounded with as well, or in the same boat. So lost some friends and stuff in my life. And so it was kind [Sean] : so called friends maybe? [Henry] : yeah. And, you know, was able to adopt a new community p retty quickly. And yeah, the climbing community's very open. A lot of interesting people here. [Awesome] It's been great so far. Yeah. [Sean] : Awesome. Yeah. Good. Good for you. [Henry] : Thanks. Appreciate it. [Sean] : Yeah. No, a friend of mine, I met, I was on a surf trip in Portugal a couple years ago and met a guy from Scotland who, who used to be, well he used to be an alcoholic. [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : And he got sober. and he said the same thing to me, like his whole circle of friends was built around drinking. [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : And he happily, he, kinda sad about it, but, you know, found, a new crew to run with. [Henry] : Yeah. Well that's the thing. Is it's both by choice and necessity, I guess. Yeah. With like where all the people that I was surrounded with are doing the same thing and you know, I'm not like, Hey, sorry, I'm not gonna be friends with you anymore because you're doing this. You're like, we can hang out. I'm just not going to drink. And yeah would prefer if you didn't but like, yeah, that doesn't sound like very much fun. See you later. See you later. [Sean] : sounds like you're all, you're better off for it. [Henry] : Totally. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, it's been the all encompassing force in my life for the last couple years. It's been great. [Sean] : Awesome man. [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : Did you do other sports growing up? [Henry] : when I was younger, you know, it was interesting. Like I, I ran, When I was in like junior high, school, but was never really, into organized sports or anything after that. And like for years just didn't really have anything. Was not in very good shape and not very healthy obviously. For a significant portion of time. So I feel like I was coming from like a serious lack of base, you know, base strength and stuff. And so I've been trying to build that up and, work towards that. So training has fallen into it a bit, but. [Sean] : So you were outta shape when you first got exposed to climbing? [Henry] : Yes. Yeah. And then, [Sean] : and did you naturally get, did you find you naturally got fitted doing it? [Henry] : I think so, yeah. For sure. Yeah. I like, I mean, any physical activity that you're doing frequently is gonna build some muscle. but, and, one thing I had going for me was I was not super light, so didn't have any weight and it's easy to carry yourself. [Sean] : Oh, you're already light, you're already a light person. Just not in shape. [Henry] : Yeah. Just not in shape. So [Sean] : aerobic or [Henry] : strength wise? Yeah. no. [Sean] : Gotcha. [Henry] : So, yeah, I've just been building that up and I don't love training, but again. [Sean] : Well, so tell me about your training. you and I got to, we went to East Peak Climb, did some ropes there two or three weeks ago. [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : Which was super fun. I thought we had a great session. I got pretty tired by the end of it, but this was like. Probably day five or six for you. Back to back to back [Henry] : No, I mean, it, was great. It was great. I go to the gym pretty frequently When it's not outdoors season. mostly out of just, you know, necessity. I want to be in shape for when I'm able to get outside. [Sean] : Yeah. [Henry] : I still have fun. And there's like a, great community in the gyms as well, like a whole circle of people that [Sean] : Of course, [Henry] : yeah. Surround yourself with, and it's a great way to, you know, a social exercise as well. [Sean] : it's a great, it's a cool community to be part of. [Henry] : totally. [Sean] : Does it sometimes a chore for you? like how often are you getting out or in the winter going to the gym. How often? [Henry] : Like five days a week. [Sean] : Five days a week? Yeah. [Henry] : If I can, but it's sometimes I feel like I'm forcing myself to do the cross training stuff. I don't love weights or any of that stuff. But, I like not being injured. [Sean] : Yeah. I'm gonna join that club soon. I think. [Henry] : I know, it's, really tricky and riding that line of being like, oh, I'm feeling super strong. I'm feeling super strong. Oh, I'm busted, and now I've gotta take a week off or just suffer through this injury. But yeah, I think the last couple of years I've, gotten into the cross training trying to build up the antagonist muscles and stuff. [Sean] : And how often do you do that? is that a couple times a week in there? [Henry] : Yeah, three times a week. [Sean] : Three times. So you're climbing five and then in there's, or is it like, [Henry] : so I usually climb and [Sean] : I see, [Henry] : do the cross training as well. [Sean] : Okay. Yeah. [Henry] : Yeah. again, most of the stuff's just things I'm picking up from other people at the gym. I'll have friends be like, like Ryan Doyle. He is a really strong climber. And he will just be like, oh man, you should do this. And I'm like, okay, why not? Or physio go to because of various injuries and they give me exercises and then I just repeat that for years and years and years, [Sean] : that's part of my problem. I don't really know what to do with weights. [Henry] : It's hard, man. I, and most of the time I'm probably doing it completely wrong, [Sean] : which is not a good thing. [no at all] I think you really do have to have [Henry] : you need to do it right [Sean] : Yeah, So better not to do it at all. [Henry] : Yeah, maybe. [Sean] : I think, [Henry] : yeah. Yeah. just chill and [Sean] : better policy. [Henry] : I, do find that I do get injured the more I do, you know, the, cross training and stuff, I can feel that. But [Sean] : you get more injured? [Henry] : No less injured. Less injured. [Sean] : Oh, okay. [Henry] : You know, [Sean] : you just [Henry] : trying to build up the, muscle around the, weak part. [Sean] : Shoulders mostly. Or what are you focusing on? [Henry] : Shoulders, bit of fingers, lot of core, and yeah, I dislocated my shoulder. A year ago, getting close to a year ago. [Sean] : Oh yeah. Trying to, well, tell us about that story that happened up at Cape Clear, [Henry] : is that Yes, it happened up at Cape Clear, fun story. So I was at Cape Clear with Graham Dexter, my main climb partner, and, Greg Hughes was there with Will Sarty, and we were all climbing together, having a wonderful weekend. And Greg had his eye on this chimney at Cape Clear that had not been investigated before, which I was super into, you know, be able to get some, someFAs under my belt, and [Sean] : yes, [Henry] : go and check out a new cool spot and whatever. so we all rapelled down. [Sean] : There's nothing like the allure of an FA to throw caution to the wind, right? [Henry] : I know. Exactly. Exactly. So yeah, we, we all rapelled into this chimney, which was really cool. maybe a little bit dank and wet and crumbly, but, you know, I decided to try to onsite this this crack, and I was stemming across on both sides and I think a foothold broke. [Sean] : So this is what, three foot wide chimney? or [Henry] : maybe four feet. It was a big stem across. I was completely starfished on the wall. [Sean] : Is there gear on the side somewhere? [Henry] : Yeah. I, there's a crack going up one side of it and I was trying to climb the crack, and then decided I would try to stem across to take a break. Yeah. And I think the foothold broke and I held it, you know, an iron cross there and the shoulder just came out. And, that had never happened to me before, but it was a very distinct feeling and immediately came down. I was with Greg and I just looked at Greg. I was like, you know how to pop it in, right? He was like, no, I don't. So anyways, I was like, oh man. what a bummer. And so Greg got outta there. I rappelled with one arm going down out of the chimney. Ooh. Okay. And, we had Rockie Talkies on us. We hadn't heard a whole of Greg. [Sean] : Is that the new walkie-talkie? Is that the new walkie-talkie? Is that the new [Henry] : Yeah, the, the, climber specific rock walkie talkies. Trying to give them a plug on. [Sean] : I heard of those. [Henry] : But yeah, they're pretty great, honestly. and we talked to Greg, and Greg had, he told us he called SAR. So this is all you've been to Cape Clear, right? yeah, yeah. This is around by the sunset. [Sean] : Yeah. I think I know where you're at. [Henry] : So it was pretty, pretty deep in there. We still had to crawl out through the Bear Cave Gully and everything. Pretty tricky to get out of, with With one, one hand. Yeah. but yeah, anyways, we, we started walking out and, [Sean] : you were just screaming and pain, eh? [Henry] : Yeah, There was, a big lurch that I had on it that did not feel good. And, yeah, we started walking and it just popped back in on its own. And I was like, oh, this is awesome. and we got outta there. I think the, Cape Breton search and Rescue Boys were a little disappointed that they didn't get to come. [Sean] : They always like some action those guys, [Henry] : rescue somebody. Anyways, they were, great. They got there [you're not bleeding?!] insanely fast, which I was really surprised by. Oh, cool, cool. Yeah, it was like, every time I've been back at Cape Clear I'm like, geez, I hope something doesn't go wrong. 'cause this road is a nightmare and we're far back here, but yeah. Instantly. So, I mean, I'm not saying to go and, you know, throw caution to the wind at Cape Clear. It's still a bit of a wild place, but they will get there pretty fast, hopefully. [Sean] : So that's cool. I know you've got a lot of trad adventures under your belt, and that seems to be a bit of a focus for you. and then, but during the winter, you're climbing indoors as we do to, yeah, to keep in shape. And I think you're doing ropes at East Peak and you're also bouldering at Seven Bays and [Henry] : Yes. [Sean] : And [Henry] : I try to get in like a, or [Sean] : climbing. [Henry] : Yeah. I do like usually one winter trip a year as well, trying to [Sean] : right [Henry] : somewhere warmer and some stuff, [Sean] : you know, I try, I like to have other previous guests - or friends - have questions for my current guest and I wasn't super prepared for this interview, so, but but just as, just before you arrived, I sent out a couple questions. Or asked some friends, and I don't, do you know Mira Kolajova? [Henry] : Yes, Mira's great. [Sean] : So I was like, do you have a question for Henry? And she's is that the thin orange hair, Henry? And she's like "He's like a trad climber that trains by bouldering at Seven Bays, which to me is like training for mountaineering by doing parkour." !! But I don't think, I think she's wrong. What do? you know, what do you...what are the benefits of bouldering for someone that's not really a boulderer? [Henry] : I mean, that's totally true. Is it like, it's a little bit true. Okay. So [I disagree.] I think that it's, there's a lot of aspects of it that really set you up. Like just the general strength. In my mind is bouldering is overhung and burley, and it's going overboard with the training almost is what, as far as physicality goes. and there's really not a way to train for trad indoors other than endurance. Other than endurance...[Yeah.] But yeah, I, when we went to, Argentina this year, I trained super hard before we went there. [Sean] : Nice. [Henry] : And then as soon as we got on, you know, a splitter crack on there, I was like, oh. Totally different. That didn't set me up for any [Oh, that's right.] So, but it came back super fast. it, wasn't that long since we'd been on off, since I think I got out in December, but still, it's the best way to train for trad is by climbing trad I think. [Sean] : Yeah. [Henry] : But in, in absence of the ability to climb trad eh, boulderings, not a bad substitute, you know, it could be worse. It's still climbing. So [Sean] : I think it's a great, yeah, I think it's a great thing is, you know, body awareness and totally strengthen your, yeah maybe you, maybe it doesn't give you the crack climbing specific, sort of movements and stuff, but. [Henry] : No, I [Sean] : When you bust out, a face will move on the side or you know, I dunno. Yeah, it translates, I think, [Henry] : I think it translates everything. I think the best way to train for most climbing is bouldering. I mean, that's where bouldering originated in the first place did it not? [true] that it was just true what you did to train small scale for big scale stuff? [Sean] : Yeah, yeah. So tell us more about, you just mentioned Argentina in passing there. So you were down in Bariloche [Henry] : Bariloche! [Sean] : Climbing at Cerro.... what's it called? Frey? [Henry] : The Frey. Yes. The Frey. Yeah. [Sean] : Yeah. Tell us about that. [Henry] : It was incredible. we decided to go there last winter. We were at El Portrero Chico with Greg. And he said that he was gonna go there this winter. [Sean] : He lied. [Henry] : He lied. [Sean] : Bastard. [Henry] : No. Greg's dance car gets filled up pretty quick. [Sean] : He, told me he was gonna take me up Siren Song....but he didn't. [Henry] : I heard that on the podcast. I asked. [Sean] : No, actually, a snowstorm came in and he got stranded up in Newfoundland is what happened. Yeah. [Henry] : I mean, totally fair. And I'm sure he'll take you up. Next winter. [Sean] : He will. Yep. [Henry] : Yeah. Yeah. So we, we were like, oh, the Frey, very interesting. Looked up and we're like, we're gonna go there and it's just this beautiful mountain range, with a bunch of granite, spires and towers there. multi-pitch trad lines. [Sean] : Solid granite. Right. [Henry] : Very solid granite. Yeah. It doesn't like, maybe look like it, there's a lot of scree and, and stuff on the ground, but all the routes were super solid. Yeah. And beautiful orange granite. I wouldn't say that it was crack climbing, but it had a lot of crack moves on it, so. [Sean] : Right, right. [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : I almost like, I like crack climbing. I like trad climbing that's totally diverse. Right. I love busting different moves and, you know, face climbing and plugging a bit of gear in here or there. [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : you know, pure crack climbing, like if you go to Indian Creek or something like that, it's, pretty fun too but [Henry] : yes, [Sean] : I, I like more diversity. [Henry] : Yeah, totally. I can get that like the creek can be a bit OneNote where you're just like, oh, move over and over again. [Sean] : So you spent time there, have you? [Henry] : Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Went there, a couple years ago, but loved it as well. Kind this. [Sean] : Super cool. [Henry] : Yeah. It's such a unique place. But, yeah, The Frey was, super, super varied. We climbed this one route there called Imaginate, and I think it was my favorite climb I've ever done. Cool. yeah. I just had the most incredible experience on it. every pitch felt like the money pitch and just super, varied. Some overhung stuff..little bit of off- width, and you get to these big hueco jugs at the top that it's just you can't help but smile while you're climbing. It is, it was incredible. [Sean] : Lovely. So, maybe coming closer to home. It's cool. It's cool that you're into trad and I'm, I wanted to talk to you regardless on this podcast, 'cause I'm curious about your story...stories. And I had a great chat with Todd Foster last, last month. [Henry] : Yes. [Sean] : But he's not a, he's not a fan of trad and he made that pretty clear. So I threatened, I said, well, we gotta, I gotta have some like pro trad climbers on here just to share the love. Yeah. Get people excited. But, I'm glad you're into it and I think there's quite a few people that are getting into it. At least that's my perception. What attracts you to that kind of a style? [Henry] : well first off, I don't know if I call myself a pro trad climber, but I'm working on it. [Sean] : Nobody's paying anybody here, man. So, yeah. [Henry] : No, I'm, I love trad climbing. I think the thing that attracts me the most is the Adventure. [Sean] : Yeah. [Henry] : it's so cool to be able to just look at a blank face and be able to ascend the whole thing. Yeah. And, you've got nothing but what's on your hips. And, it has this whole like, mental chess game as well. Yeah. Of placing gear, and the, head game of being bold and working through that in your head, you know, assessing whether or not something's actually dangerous or just feels spooky. [Sean] : I like that. Yeah. Yeah. Expand on that. [Henry] : well, I don't know, have I, I'm a big fan of the Rock Warrior's Way. Have you read that book? I'm on my like third or fourth. Listen to it now. Anyways, it's a great book and, I don't know, it just, it forces you to be present. I think Heather was saying that as well, but that's what I really like about it, is that you can't. there's perceived danger and then there's real danger. So you need to be able to assess okay, I have, you know, a piece two feet beneath my feet and it's a solid piece. I'm looking ahead, you know, it's gonna be a little while before I get to place another piece of gear. Yeah. You need to be able to assess your ability realistically in that moment, and I mean, hope that the next placement's going be good as well. And you, assess from a distance if something's gonna be able to go in there. And if you get a good, totally rest it, it requires a lot of, A lot of precision and a lot of thought. And, I think strategy, that's the word I'm looking for. Yeah. Yeah. and I think that's really interesting and it's, I don't know, the, has this sort of, you know, the leave no trace aesthetic behind it as well where you get to go and appreciate this beautiful piece of nature and climb it and then leave and it's, the same as it was before you arrived. [Sean] : Yeah. It's, a special experience. I mean, I think you and I are both similar in that, we also love sport climbing. Like it's all, climbing. [Henry] : Totally. [Sean] : really, but the attraction, I agree for trad climbing in a lot of ways, it's that it's just you're meeting the rock as it is. [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : there's not a lot of clues sometimes. [Henry] : Totally. and I, was into sport climbing before I got into trad climbing. It was always a goal of mine. But, my ideas behind trad climbing before were like, oh, it's sport climbing where you place your own bolts, essentially. you're placing your own protection and after getting into trad climbing, I think that's completely untrue. it climbs so much more differently than it, and there's so many different nuances to it, and I think they, again, have both of their value. I think it's really cool. [Sean] : Yeah. well, I had the, I mean, one of the issues is you're often hanging off of one arm for a long time while your other arm is searching for the right piece and making decisions about what's gonna fit, fit in that little crack, as opposed to like just reaching for a draw and slamming into a bolt. Or if it's a pre, a pre hung draw, you're just clipping the bolt. It's quite, there's quite a lot to it. [Henry] : Yeah. And, with sport climbing, you're just clipping the bolt is almost an afterthought, you know? it's something that's expected and there's a spot where it's supposed to go. And like you're doing it to protect yourself. [Sean] : Yeah. [Henry] : But the first and foremost is the climbing, you know, which I think is really cool [Sean] : in sport climbing [Henry] : in sport climbing. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. and, [Sean] : and, that's why people love it. But you know, and that's, totally fair. [Henry] : Yeah. but again, you know, that's why I love it. It's really cool that you get into this flow state and you're, your moves are the focus. but then the adventure of trad climate. Yeah. Where you're on this face. You've got it. It takes so much more time too. Which is the other thing. [Sean] : It's an investment. I know. It's an investment. You can, stare at, you can stare at a cliff. You've got a decision to climb a an 11 C sport route or 11 c trad line. And they're quite different decisions, really. You know in terms of like mental anguish or preparation or, you know, physical, challenge that you're gonna be facing? Yeah, it's, it's, a different. It's a different beast. [Henry] : Well, it's funny because, you know, training at a bouldering gym, first and foremost, like all of my bouldering friends just think I'm a masochist for going out and suffering on these trad routes. [Sean] : Yeah. It's dirty. [Henry] : And you know, there is a small amount of masochism involved in trad climbing for sure. [Sean] : And you can't convince them to join you. [Henry] : No, never. Never. I mean, there's, a small few who will come out, but like for the most part they're like, no, that sounds horrible. [Sean] : But that's the cool thing. There's more and more people that are venturing into that [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : Territory. And even, you know, Samantha who, I think, we all know. We, I chatted with her in the earlier episode and super strong climber and she's getting quite interested in trad climbing, you know. [Henry] : Yeah. I love to hear that. [Sean] : Her and me, I mentioned Mira earlier, they both sent, Hesitation Breeds Chaos. Last summer, I think it was, or maybe two summers ago. [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : at Sorrows End and Dr. Funkenstein. And I mean, they're getting on that stuff that yeah, there's that added layer of all the complexities of placing gear, but it's still about hard moves. Totally. You know, it's in there. Yeah. It's in there. [Henry] : Yeah. And you know, both Samantha and Mira are such crushers and it's really cool crushers to see them getting into that other aspect of it. And man, Dr. Funkenstein is hard. I didn't get up it, but I gave that a couple burns. It was funny how that happened. I forget who mentioned it. Was it you that mentioned it or something and then all of a sudden it blew up and everybody was getting on that route? [Sean] : No, I mean, so I put that route up years and years ago. [Henry] : Yeah, yeah. [Sean] : And Rich was intrigued by it. So he, it was on his tick list. Yes, he was working on it that summer. And then he said, he went, out on this particular day and I think he was like partly up the route and all of a sudden, you know, I don't know. Samantha and Jody show up and you and somebody else show up. Everybody's lined up to do this route. Yeah. That nobody touched for like years. [Henry] : I know. That was the funny thing. [Sean] : All on the same day. [Henry] : Yeah. Yeah. and a ton of people got up at, [Sean] : on that day? [Henry] : Not that day, no. But last season [Sean] : that [Henry] : summer. [Sean] : Yeah. Yeah, [Henry] : yeah. [Sean] : That's super cool. [Henry] : No, very cool. [Sean] : Yeah. What are some of your favorite, well, it doesn't matter, trad or sport. What are some of your favorite route that you've climbed in the province? [Henry] : I mean, most of my favorite routes are at First Face. I think it's such an incredible, [Sean] : My man! [Henry] : Special cliff. Yeah. no. it's, so cool. I love Sins and Transgressions and Mea Culpa Arches there I think is a fantastic trad line. We were talking about that earlier. [Sean] : Yeah. Steve Punshon, Classic. the first two you mentioned are Sean Willett lines. [Henry] : Yeah. Yeah. [Sean] : he put up a ton of awesome lines there. [Henry] : Oh, they're so good. Yeah, they're so good. yeah. And that's the thing I also love about trad is I can really have fun on any grade of trad line. And I think Popcorn, like the first pitch of that is such a fun line. Think a hundred percent think, priceless. Priceless is such a fun line. [Sean] : Ah, that's getting a, that's experiencing a resurgence. I think [Henry] : it really deserves it. It's such a cool line. Very cool. I gotta climb that again. Yeah. super fun. I love the fact that it's just right out over the lake. It's really hoping that water was deep enough, but unfortunately, [Sean] : do you know the story, the story behind that? [Henry] : Yeah. who, was it? They lost their nuts on the, pardon? Pardon? Sorry. [Sean] : it, well, it was either, I'm gonna forget now. Tony Veling was a very early, early, early pioneer there. And Dan Price. [Henry] : Dan Price, yes. That's what I was thinking. [Sean] : So the story goes that. They were, I don't know, working on that route or prepping the route or finishing the route or something. And, I guess Dan Price dropped his rack and it fell into the deep water there. I suppose you might be able to deep water. So that, to be honest, is apparently he's quite deep. yeah. So he priceless, was less Iraq and it costs a lot of money to replace it. So [Henry] : that, that, makes sense. That's good story. That has the name. Yeah. Yeah. [Sean] : Yeah. [Henry] : But yeah, no, I really like transformer. Transformer's a great line. [Sean] : Oh yeah. [Henry] : The list goes on. I think Nova Scotia as has lines that could stack up internationally as far as, [Sean] : Well! you don't hear that. You don't hear that very often, to be honest. You don't hear that very often. I don't know if I would agree with that. I mean, there's some good lines, but [Henry] : there's a couple lines. But I mean, I, wouldn't say that every line does, but there's, definitely, I've had as much fun on some lines here as I've had anywhere. [Sean] : Cool. [Henry] : Yeah. I think it's a super cool community. it's one of the things I like about Nova Scotia climbing is you go somewhere else and you can be on an approach and you'll be looking at these like 10 meter walls off to the side and I'll just be, that's a Nova Scotia sport line. That's a Nova Scotia trad line - all over the place. These untouched things. Yeah. And I think it's really cool that, there's such like a passionate small community here and in the past as well. you know, when, you guys were putting stuff up and when Willett and Punshon were putting things up. It's just this like desire and passion for the sport and [Sean] : regardless of size or quality, [Henry] : regardless of size or quality, but like whatever, you know? Yeah. It's, if, it's there climbe it. and Yeah. there's not much here. So I really appreciate the work that you and everyone else and the history of the sport here is put the time into developing the routes. It's incredible. [Sean] : It's pretty goofy, eh? Like it is, yeah. A lot of people wouldn't really believe there's climbing here, or if there is climbing, it's not worth doing. [Henry] : Right. [Sean] : And it's, you can, well, we talked about the PEI climbers, right? [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : They don't even have any cliffs. [Henry] : There's climbers there [Sean] : and they're stoked. [Henry] : Yeah, they're super stoked - I love the PEI climbing community. Yeah. And it is, it's super cool. and that, that's the same thing I appreciate about here, where it's you know, there, there might not be much, but like people will find it and they will put things on it If it exists, like And, it's totally worth doing. I don't know. [Sean] : Yeah. That's pretty cool. [Henry] : It's very cool. [Sean] : So you acknowledged some of the, folks that have opened up lines and stuff here for us in the past. And I know you're, you've picked up the torch a little bit. I mean, you almost put up an FA on that chimney up at Cape Clear and you ripped your shoulder off. [Henry] : I still have to go back to it. It's, that's, definitely on the docket for this year. I've got the name picked out. We're gonna call it Dislocators. [Sean] : Perfect. and beyond that, though, beyond that, you've been, you and Graham again, I think have been doing some work up at, this, new sort of new crag, but really an old old crag. [Henry] : Yes. Like a, a sort of new crag, but an, actually old old crag. Graham has been doing a little less on this one. He is got a, Partner's about to have another baby, so he's really busy. But, my friend Dan Kap, he was actually looking for a fishing spot and just stumbled upon the cliff there, and told me about it. So we went out last season to check it out. He really was chomping at the bit to show [Sean] : me. And Dan's a climber as well? [Henry] : Yes. yeah. good friend of mine done a lot of climbing together and, showed me this cliff and I was like, oh my God. How has this not been touched yet? [Sean] : Uhhuh? [Henry] : Yeah, it's pretty great. I think it's great. [Sean] : but it had been touched right? [Henry] : it had been touched, yes. So, on our, Peter Belliveau had been back there. [Sean] : There you go. [Henry] : And cut a bit of a trail and there was a sign out there and I think he had taken the backseat on it. He hadn't been out again, so [Sean] : he put up a couple routess there I think, right? [Henry] : Yeah. He put up a couple routes, for sure. Yeah. [Sean] : Maybe even a mixed line or two. [Henry] : Yep, yep, [Sean] : yep. [Henry] : and anyway, so that was just our preliminary visit out there and on the way out we bumped into Rich, which was actually the first time I had properly been introduced to Rich. [Sean] : Right. [Henry] : And I saw this guy walking through the woods with a rope on him. I was like, what is going on? And he was just flabbergasted. [He's gonna take my FAs.] Well, no. I was just like, what are the chances that. A bunch of climbers are crossing paths on this very obscure area. [Sean] : It's like Dr. Funkenstein all over. [Henry] : Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and anyways, we got to talking and, I've, since made friends with Rich. We've done some fun climbs together and, you know, climbed with you through it. Yeah. But, yeah, I've been out there a bunch. The cliff is horrifically, mossy and dirty. And has required so much scrubbing. And I can see where the passion. thank you, for development comes from, 'cause I'm just like very driven to get that rock exposed and to have something new to, to work on. it's been super fun. We've put up a couple routes there. Dan and I, and Rich has put up some routes as well. I'm very excited to get out there this season and, finish some stuff up, continue the scrubbing. It's just been, you know, I think at the end of last season, I was just hanging from a rope for nine hours a day. Just losing my mind, going through brush after [Sean] : losing circulation in your legs. [Henry] : Losing circulation. rapping my knuckles on the rock. Oh yeah. Yeah. that's the worst. But, anyways, love it. Just put on the podcast. [Sean] : Well, I, enjoyed it. I put up a number of routes, but what I got tired of was inhaling so much lichen [Henry] : Oh yeah. [Sean] : Into your lungs. I just felt like this is not good for me. [Henry] : No, I do find it cathartic to an extent the, scrubbing aspect and what [Sean] : it's, yeah. You feel this grime and dirt all over you. [Henry] : Yeah. Yeah. And the, [Sean] : it's hard work. [Henry] : It's, it is hard work and, the, breathing in the lichen is definitely not good for you. [Sean] : Maybe it's good. Who knows? Maybe it's, [Henry] : it could be, maybe there's medicinal, qualities. We could get into some naturopath stuff. [Sean] : So how many routes do you think will be up on that cliff once it's all done with, you know, Peter's routes and Rich's and yours and Dan's, [Henry] : I think 15 to 20? I think so. Like a good chunk. I think it's worth it. I think the routes that we've put up already out there are gonna be worth the trip. [Sean] : How can you, can hike in there now, or you need to take a boat. [Henry] : So it, it's the best. I know that Peter, had. Established a trail. I think that, cut in off of the, off of the trail to get to Howe Crag, but I never looked into that trail in particular. We, we decided that the fastest way was to take a boat and then a trail from there, so. Oh, okay. We bought a community canoe. So once this place is established and we've got everything set up out there, we've got the canoe out there for anybody to take if they would like to, go out there. it's a 15 minute paddle and then a half hour walk. [Sean] : Awesome. I can't wait to hear the details on this once you guys finish things up. [Henry] : Yeah, no, it's, getting there. I'm sure, I mean by the time this comes out, I think it'll probably be ready to go and we'll try to learn some people out there. [Sean] : It's really cool to see, you guys doing this new development and also, You know, we were talking about it earlier, but the new legacy walls that, Chris Hayes and his son Cole Hayes have been developing, furiously over the last year or so. is gonna be exciting to explore. They're, they've got an event planned soon. it'll probably have happened by the time this episode gets released, but, yeah, it's gonna be cool to check that out. [Henry] : Super stoked for the Legacy Walls. I'm very excited to get out there and romp up. Man, that, what was it, like 120 climbs? [Sean] : I don't know what, [Henry] : it's some nutty amount. [Sean] : Yeah. It's [Henry] : gonna be [Sean] : cool. [Henry] : No, I'm very excited and seems like another good opportunity to get the community together. It's really cool to see events like that happening for the rope community, In Nova Scotia. I know we've got Boulder Fest, but to have an event like that, I've always loved going to the Cochrane Lane Rendezvous and the Red Rock Rendezvous and in New Brunswick. In New Brunswick. Yeah. It's, I love that we're doing similar stuff here [Sean] : and hopefully the on the bouldering side, hopefully Boulder Fest will happen this year. It's been on hold for a little bit. [Henry] : Yeah. I've actually never been to Boulder Fest and I need to get out there. [Sean] : You've been to Dover though, I assume. No, not yet. [Henry] : I haven't been to Dover. [Sean] : The bouldering's amazing, but there's also some, a little crag there. [Henry] : I'd love to get on the trad lines and I need to, you know, [Sean] : there's, there's one, called The Mustard. [Henry] : The Mustard you should see on that one [great name.] Yeah. [You put that one up. [Sean] : Show me the mustard. [Henry] : Show me the mustard. Yeah. No, I don't, I haven't done a lot of bouldering in Nova Scotia and I know. It's great. I just have not, I don't know, I guess I'm saving it for when I'm completely exhausted by everything else. [Sean] : You won't have energy to do it, though, that's the problem. [Henry] : Yeah. Boulderings hard. That's why I don't do it most of the time. It's it's, so taxing and so physical. I'm impressed by our giant community of super strong boulders here. [Sean] : But we also gotta convince 'em to, get on a rope from time to time. [Henry] : Yeah, I know. I know. I think that. I don't know. the rope community is definitely growing now, which I love to see. But yeah, you know, boulderers, you know, get multifaceted, jump on the rest of it. [Sean] : Get outta your comfort zone. [Henry] : Get outta your comfort zone. [Sean] : Stop. Stop. Parkouring, [Henry] : stop parkouring, stop parkouring. You know, imagine if there is like more than four moves, maybe eight moves, maybe 12. [Sean] : Imagine the possibilities. [Henry] : It's just boulder stacked on boulders. It gets bigger. But, yeah, no, I, could dial it in and do a little bit of bouldering as well. [Sean] : Any favorite memories come to mind of your climate experiences over the years? [Henry] : Man, I have so many great memories in Nova Scotia. I think most of the great memories I have. Or interesting memories or good stories are just epics, you know, that's, the problem with climbing is nobody [Sean] : that's problem with trad climbers. They love epics. [Henry] : That's the problem. Yeah. And no, nobody's really interested in the story. oh yeah, I went out there and I climbed it, and it was really great. What, else do you have to say about it, you know, [Sean] : well, it doesn't matter if other people are interested in it. I'm asking you, did you enjoy the experience? [Henry] : Yeah, no, I think I mean, I've, the best times that I've had climbing in Nova Scotia, a lot of them have been at Cape Clear. I think Cape Clear is such a special place, like the first time out there and just being mind blown by the vista. Great camping trips up there, like going up with a big crew, to Cape Clear. Usually Greg Hughes is there. [Sean] : he's like the mayor of Cape Clear. [Henry] : He basically lives there. and yeah, Cape Clear's got a special place in my heart. [Sean] : what about worst memories? [Henry] : Worst memories? [Sean] : Apart, from you tearing your shoulder off again at Cape Clear. [Henry] : Oh man. Well, had we had a crazy [the best of times the worst of times], another crazy, story from Cape Clear. so the first couple trips we had three trips to Cape Clear, me and Graham, and we're always looking for one route there. It became our white whale called, "Are you experienced?" And it's a five nine. It's on the Wave Wall and you have to rappel into it. [Sean] : Yeah. Therian dragged me down on that for the first Ascent. we did that together. Yeah, [Henry] : You did that one? So yeah, we were trying to find how to get there, which was vague and, I think more than once had us rappelling down in the wrong place, only to have to ascend. It's, [Sean] : it's almost, I think if you wrap down it correctly, you're almost right above that, Annihilator project. [Henry] : Yes. Yeah. [Sean] : More or less. [Henry] : Yeah. And, just left of where you get up, Feel the Love. [Sean] : Right. [Henry] : anyways, we, had finally made our way down there and we're climbing it and I was having a great time on it. Honestly, I, haven't heard stellar things about the route, but I was having a great day on the wall, and I think I said to Graham right before anything happened was that, I was like, man, isn't it cool that we get to do this? Looking down, we're, On this massive face in Cape Breton super secluded or the illusion of being super secluded. And the climbing I felt was like kind of flowy and fun. And he was like, yeah man, this is great. So anyways, we were top of the first pitch and I was belaying Graham and he was topping out and all of a sudden, just like the whole world came out from underneath him, he was on like a refrigerator sized [Sean] : I, right. I remember now. You told, okay. [Henry] : Yeah. Refrigerator sized block. And, it just all four limbs on top of it while he was topping out and the whole thing pulled out and he flipped upside down. The rock landed on the rope. And cut the sheath and a, good portion of the core strands. [Sean] : So he was leading or he was, [Henry] : he was leading and I was belaying. [Sean] : So you're underneath this block that was flying down? [Henry] : Yeah, I was anchored into the wall and had to like just swung. To the left of it, and it smashed right where I was standing, hit the wall. [Sean] : Oh, wow. [Henry] : And yeah, Graham was hanging upside down all the rope that, that the sheath had been cut and probably the core, like staring face to face with the ruin rope. Anyways, super spooky. But, I think that was probably, yeah, the, closest it has come and the closest I hope it comes as far as, climbing goes. [Sean] : I don't know why people don't wanna go trad climbing. [Henry] : But that was a sport route! [Sean] : I know, that's what I was gonna say it's totally bolted... yeah, [Henry] : but that's Cape Clear for you. [Sean] : Yeah. [Henry] : anyways, we got outta there and like the same day we decompressed after that. And so that was a terrible time. But then a great time we had, there was, with a, we had a solid group of friends up there. We were with Kevin Goh and friend Elsa Tokunaga and Turner Kinal. And we just as a cool down, decided to go to, Little Sentinel. it's a trad climb, I think it's five, somewhere between five six and five eight. Really cool Little Rock and all of us climbed onto the top of it and hung out on the head of it for a while, and that was a really great time. So Nice. Yeah, I'd say that's the worst time in one of the best times. Nice climbing in Nova Scotia. [Sean] : That's cool. [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : can you think of any advice that you've received or if you were to share some advice with an up and coming climber, what might that be? [Henry] : I mean, climbing's a lot of things to a lot of different people and it's a lot of things for me at different points in time. You know, you go through times when you're projecting super hard and like I've done that where I've gone kind of crazy project and you feel like a psychopath at the end of it where you're just like grinding, trying to get this one climb going out four days a week, just throwing yourself at the wall and it can be. Not that fun. And then, it, becomes, I don't know, a different thing entirely, but that can be enjoyable unto its own. And then, yeah, so I think switch it up when you need to, I think is a good thing. you know, you don't always have to do the same thing. You don't always have to project super hard. You can romp your way up a five six trad line and have a great time too. And it's, good to do that. And yeah, [Sean] : you can go deep water soloing, [Henry] : you can go deep water soloing, you can go bouldering, you can get into whatever aspect of it you want to. And I think like climbing with the right people as well. I think that one of the biggest takeaways I have from climbing is that it's not, I mean, it can be if that's what you're into, it can be a solo venture, but for me it's really not. And I don't. Get on climbs because I want to climb something by myself. The best times that I've had climbing are with my best friend Graham. Like it's, really, it's a beautiful thing to be able to share it with somebody. And that's, really cool. You know, being able to share in this, like when you're having an epic or you're just having this great day, like being able to share that with somebody you're close to is really cool. And becoming close to other people through that experience, through that shared experience is really great. So I think you know, appreciate who you're doing it with is, really important. [Sean] : Totally. [Henry] : Yeah. [Sean] : Yeah. I can, I believe that too. Well, listen, man, it's been so fun getting to know you over the last full year. Yeah, well, looking forward to a lot more, adventures and climbs together, but, It's, it's great doing this together. Thank you. [Henry] : A hundred percent. Yeah. [Sean] : Let's, let's get the shoes back on and we'll, hit the Icebox here [Henry] : for sure. Appreciate it, man. Thanks so much, Casy. [Sean] : Cool. Thanks a lot Henry. And thanks to everyone for listening. If you want to learn more about podcast, please check out Iceboxsessions.ca As usual, big thanks to Climb Nova Scotia for supporting the podcast along with East Peak Climbing, Seven Bay Bouldering and Unfiltered Brewing. Catch you all later. [Henry] : Well, I got a, the, Deep Water solo enema on that one. [Oh, right.] It's completely, [Sean] : yeah, that's a good .. health benefits there, I'm sure. [Henry] : Totally. [Sean] : Yeah. Cleaned you right out. I don't know why people don't wanna go trad climbing.