Episode 11 - Will Transcript === [Will] : We live in a chossy province. [Sean]: CNS needs to clean up the choss. [Will] : CNS needs to clean up the choss. I could do nine one-arm pull-ups at the time, but I couldn't climb this route. [Sean]: Hey everybody, welcome to another Icebox Session. My name is Sean Cassidy, and we are in conversation with Nova Scotia rock climbers. In some circles, today's guest is known simply as Arm Bender, but we know him as Will Sarty, or more recently as the president of Climb Nova Scotia. In this episode, we learn about Will's competitive arm wrestling career, as well as his favorite rock climbs, including a blow-by-blow description of the bouldering route we call Chameleon. He shares his stoke for training, getting in the zone, and the benefits that climbing can have on our mental health. We also get into the many ways that Climb Nova Scotia supports our climbing community. So put your helmets on and pull out your vinyl collections. The Icebox is now in session. [Will] : I think it's starting to come back where people wanna get records, and they wanna sit down and listen to the whole album. [Sean]: That's cool. [Will] : They're not rushing things. [Sean]: Times are changing a bit, eh? it's like an anti... Even the technology stuff, I noticed there are groups- Yeah ... that are like, "No, I'm not on social media." [Will] : Yeah, I don't do that. I'm on it, yeah. You're- I like the social media because, and I've been told I'm somewhat of an elitist, in a negative way. [Sean]: I have heard that, actually. It was mentioned to me, and I was like, I don't take it like that. [Will] : Yeah. I, like it because I feel like I enjoyed a beautiful experience on a cliff, maybe in, in someplace new, or a new route, or something that not a lot of traffic is going on, and I like posting about it because it might inspire someone to go out to that and check it out and also appreciate something good. So inspiring or motivating someone to get out to something new- [Sean]: Yeah ... [Will] : I'm all for it. [Sean]: Cool. I've always taken it as, you're sharing stuff you're stoked about. Yeah, [Will] : super stoked. [Sean]: And that's part of the reason, as I was thinking about starting this podcast, historical names came to mind. Yep. Historical. [Will] : Yeah. [Sean]: whatever. [Will] : Old. [Sean]: the old people. You're no spring chicken. [Will] : I'm no spring chicken, no. [Sean]: But, I was also inspired by, people that are stoked. [Will] : Yeah. [Sean]: And I just got that vibe from you, for the last couple years, and I was keen to find out what you're all about- Thanks, man. I, love it 'cause you're, constantly posting shit. [Will] : Yeah. [Sean]: And- I love [Will] : it. It's what a wonderful sport. [Sean]: Dude. So let's start out, I'm curious about, I understand you're also known as Arm Bender. [Will] : Yeah. [Sean]: And I'm curious about your whole arm wrestling career. [Will] : Actually, that's kinda what started my climbing, journey was, arm wrestling. So I was a- Okay ... professional arm wrestler for 23, 24 years. [Sean]: So you've, I... A little bit of research on your history, but you've had national titles- Yeah ... like a bunch of them. [Will] : 15. [Sean]: And 15 national wins and- Yeah ... and you, and, worlds. You won [Will] : the- Yeah, I went to the worlds five times. I've got two gold medals and a bronze, a bunch of fourth places. So fourth was just a great motivator to identify my weaknesses. And I was like, "Oh my God, I'm there. There's just one thing I'm missing. what am I missing from this?" And everyone ... And I used to train people, across Canada, across the world. People would message me. I wrote a book on training for- I saw that arm wrestling. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : And, I was like, "What am I not doing right?" Or what could I do differently is more important. What can I do differently that's gonna separate me from everyone else in the pack? 'Cause everyone's training the same. And, 'cause it's a very unique niche sport. And, I was on a military course, and Christian Hapgood from New Brunswick, he lives in Nova Scotia now. [Sean]: I recognize that name. Yeah. [Will] : He's a climber, right? He was a climber. Yeah, I think he's just starting to get back into it again. Okay, cool. But he's "Hey, do you wanna come check out indoor climbing with me at the base in..." I think it was in Ontario. It was either Ontario or Quebec. They had a base wall. And I got on it, and I was like, immediately, like halfway up the wall, I was exhausted, and I was like, "What is this?" And it was like- [Sean]: 'Cause you're, a strong motherf***er, and w- [Will] : Yeah, so I got in- [Sean]: Why can't I do this? [Will] : I brought a lot to the table. I, Yeah ... I could do nine one-arm pull-ups at the time. I could do two, two-finger one-arm pull-ups, and one one-finger pu- But I couldn't climb this route. [Sean]: Isn't that interesting? [Will] : I was gassing out. It was crazy. [Sean]: It reminds me of, I saw ... What's that MMA guy? Georges [Will] : St-Pierre. Georges St-Pierre, [Sean]: yeah. I saw a clip of him. He went to the climbing gym. [Will] : Yeah. [Sean]: And he got totally- Toasted sauced. [Will] : Yeah, and [Sean]: he's- And you're like, how is that possible? He's- [Will] : He's so strong and so- He's- ... fit. [Sean]: Okay. So great. Carry on. So, [Will] : so- yeah, so I- You got introduced to this ... I got up this, I got down to the bottom, I'm like, this is now gonna be my focus. I need to incorporate this somehow into my training. [Sean]: Oh, okay. Okay. [Will] : So i- it w- This was the super sauce? Climbing was a means to an end. Climbing was- Oh ... training for me. Interesting. It wasn't about climbing. It wasn't about the experience. it was a part of the gym. I was doing sets and reps. I had it focused into my- [Sean]: On the climbing, in the climbing gym? [Will] : In the climbing gym. [Sean]: Dude, this is so cool because i- we're talking, my whole, anti-training for climbing. [Will] : Yeah. [Sean]: Climbing. Trai- climbing is training for climbing. Climbing is [Will] : training. [Sean]: And you're using that time- [Will] : For something else ... for arm wrestling. Yeah. That's cool. And, the two sports really transitioned well. they really mirrored each other very well. I had very strong tendons. I had what I thought very strong hands. I used to do an hour and a half hand and wrist workout twice a week. So my hand and wrists were super strong. [Sean]: Did the added finger strength from climbing, did that assist your arm wrestling in some way? [Will] : Absolutely, but in a, way that is not normal to arm wrestling. So that's what climbing did for me in arm wrestling. It got me strong in areas where all arm wrestlers are weak. And that's where your wrist is kicked back. Oh. So climbing actually made me super strong- Interesting ... with my wrist kicked back, 'cause that's your natural wrist placement. And by doing all these explosive moves- That's cool ... my fast twitch muscles developed very quickly, and then I became very strong in what normally is a weak position. Everyone I was facing felt confident when they set up to the table, and they're like, "Yeah, I got... I'm not gonna change my position. I'm not gonna change my strategy." I'm just gonna hold this guy. "I'm just gonna go with this. This guy's an idiot. What's he doing?" [Sean]: D- did you set them up purposely [Will] : with that? [Sean]: I [Will] : would purposely set up with my wrist kicked back, and they wouldn't do anything, and I would be able to top roll somebody from that position. [Sean]: Okay. [Will] : And the first year that I started rock climbing, I went to the Worlds in Poland. That was 2013, and so indoor climbing. And So you [Sean]: started climbing when? In 2012? [Will] : indoors 2013, and I got on the podium Everything is about counter moves in arm wrestling. It's like electricity, right? It goes where the least amount of resistance is. That's what arm wrestling is. So I'm up at the table and I'm feeling out where are you not applying pressure, where... And I'm doing all of these counter moves- Oh, [Sean]: that's super [Will] : cool ... and that person is also countering my counter moves until you get to, this happy medium where no one's happy, but you can go, right? And then it's on. [Sean]: Dude, this is fascinating. [Will] : So it's super interesting, arm wrestling, and then it transitions so well into climbing. [Sean]: That's Yeah, that's the obvious question because it seems like, man, that is... climbing's not dy- You don't have a dynamic opponent. [Will] : Nope. [Sean]: But from what I'm hearing is there's, There's, a multidimensional understanding of the forces that are being- That's right ... applied or- Exactly, yeah or not engaging [Will] : or whatever. The opposite and opposing forces, the being able to rest while you're actually at full strength or at full capacity. [Sean]: Right. [Will] : How can I rest? Or how can I be on a climb- [Sean]: Totally ... [Will] : and find a position that's gonna give me some rest- Absolutely, yeah ... so that I can carry on and, do the thing that I love. [Sean]: That's, a- that's an super important skill in climbing- Yeah ... is being able to rest on a wall. [Will] : Yeah. [Sean]: And it's kinda something that I used a lot because I was kinda, I'm a, slow climber. I'm getting a bit quicker. I'm seeing the value in climbing quicker, but I've traditionally been a slow climber trying to figure it out on- on site, kinda tenacious, you know- not wanting to fall. And that skill of finding those micro rests- It's- ... even when you're engaged, it's like, it's that understanding of your body and all the muscles that are engaged. [Will] : Yep. [Sean]: that's really neat. So let's back up. So you said you stumbled into climbing and saw the benefits of using that as a training- Yeah mechanism to amplify arm wrestling, and then somewhere along the lines, you s- switched. [Will] : It [Sean]: switched. Yeah, when did [Will] : that happen? I would say... I'm trying to think back when I started at the Dockyard Gym. Oh, yeah. The old Dockyard Gym. Yeah, It's still going, but it's, not- Is it? Yeah. after COVID, it kinda like- [Sean]: Got harder to, access or whatever [Will] : it got really hard for the people that actually started the organization to get back into doing it. What? So I used to... When I first... When I got back to Nova Scotia, from out west when I was climbing, 'cause I climbed at, Craig X in Victoria. [Sean]: Oh, yeah. [Will] : Beautiful gym. Yeah, I've heard of it. And I was climbing, 40 hours a week. I was on a course that I had already done. Yeah. I was in the military, so I switched from a non-commissioned member to an officer. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : So I had to go on this sailing course that I'd already done as a non-commissioned member. But because I didn't do it as an officer, I didn't have the check in the box. So I went in the first day and they're like, "Yeah, you don't need to be here. Come back for the exam." So you [Sean]: got the check. You're [Will] : gonna get- I got the check. They're like, "Just come... You're here for three months." I was like, "Okay." "Just keep yourself busy. Come back for the exam." Holy God. So I found Crag X and I climbed there 40 hours a week. [Sean]: 40 hours [Will] : a week. Oh my God, it was amazing. And then when I came back to Nova Scotia, I g- I found out that there was a gym on the base. Yeah ... Pete Lapay. I used to climb with him. Oh. Curtis Rainer. God, who e- Nathan Benjamin was there, Yeah ... climbing. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : Yeah. And, I climbed with those folk ... Ryan, [Sean]: Ryan, DesRoches. [Will] : I think he was... Yeah. Is- I may have ran into him. I didn't, from what I remember, meet Ryan until a few years ago. [Sean]: Oh, okay. I think I, I [Will] : think I [Sean]: climbed with him- On route ... there once [Will] : or twice. I think he w- he actually watched me my first time on Magister Ludi. I think it was, like, my second week out climbing ever outdoors. Oh, nice. And I got Magister on my second go- [Sean]: Damn ... [Will] : with Nate leading, or Nate, catching me. And, that was the first time I met, Ryan. [Sean]: okay. So- [Will] : So yeah, at the Dockyard Gym, and then, obviously Seven Bays opened. so used to just boulder for fun. wasn't really using it for training. I retired, I had to retire from arm wrestling in 2016. 2015, after the Worlds in Malaysia, I had to retire 'cause I was so injured. I couldn't drive right-handed. I couldn't open up a door. I couldn't do anything with side pressure. touching my face would bring tears to my eyes 'cause I damaged my elbow so bad. f***. And, yeah, so did the whole Seven Bays stuff, and then I deployed for a year in Latvia, and then I got back, spring of 2021. I bought a crash pad, and- put a post on rock climbing, Facebook page. I was like, "All right, I got a pad. I just need a partner. Anybody wanna go out?" And- [Sean]: I always see you p- looking for partners. [Will] : Yeah. You get so addicted. Oh, my God, it's so hard. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : So hard. But [Sean]: it shouldn't be hard. [Will] : Yeah. It shouldn't be this hard. And, Nathan Benjamin, reached out to me, and he's "I don't boulder, but I climb." So we went out on ropes. [Sean]: this is funny because I never hear of you bouldering. [Will] : Yeah. Any, kind of- I've gone out to, to get the feel for it. I've gone to Corn and Bung, and I've done a couple V6s. Sure. And I... And, even when we went to Dover, we did rope climbing at Dover. Yeah. [Sean]: yeah, [Will] : sometimes- And, you gotta [Sean]: do it ... [Will] : but, yeah, Nathan took me out. I think we went to Castle first for the morning, and then we went to probably I think The Spot right after. we drove to the second place and did two places in one day. Oh, [Sean]: geez. [Will] : And then I was hooked, immediately. I was like- ... this is amazing. [Sean]: Okay, so that was your first experience [Will] : outside. That was my [Sean]: first experience outside. And when was that? [Will] : spring, summer of 2021. [Sean]: Okay. Wow. [Will] : And, yeah, started doing some really cool stuff. first on-site was All The Rage was, which was really cool. All The Rage. Yeah. Cool. That was my first. Yeah, it was so good, and it was funny 'cause Nat, he really... He gave me a lot of really good tools, right? I really appreciate what he did for me. And I remember, he's "Okay, you're gonna try to go for the on-site. Think about it. Think about the risks, hazards." "Approach it from the ground up. Tell me exactly what your plan is." Yeah. "And then if your plan's gonna change- Huh ... and do all the things." And I was like, "Yeah, I'm gonna do this, I got up to the ledge. Oh, cool. I'm like, "Nope, not doing any of that." I'm switching this up completely." And then, [Sean]: In terms of the beta [Will] : or like- In terms of the beta. Yeah. And, how I'm gonna approach it, and then it really resonated with me how important down climbing is, right? Down climbing is such a useful tool to have. I heard [Sean]: people say [Will] : that. Man, it's- Peter, [Sean]: Croft [Will] : so good. Don't, take the take. Don't do the fall. Just down climb- Down climb ... into a position where you can rest, right? And once you learn where those rest spots are, you'll be like, "All right, I know I had a really good rest spot there. I can down climb safely through that [Sean]: spot." I have rarely down climbed- [Will] : Okay [Sean]: to be honest. [Will] : Oh, I, do enjoy it. But yeah, I got, All The Rage, as my first on-site there, and for sport, and then Recognition was my first on-site for trad. [Sean]: Oh, cool. [Will] : and I didn't like trad. Trad scared the shit out of me. Still does. it really scared me. but I was like, "Whatever. I'm gonna still get a trad rack. I'm gonna... I need to approach this holistically. I need to look at... I wanna be at least knowledgeable at all aspects of climbing, whether it's bouldering, trad, sport, whatever. I wanna have the whole thing, the whole package." And, last year's when I really started to like trad. I really- So you like trad now? I love it. I was doing trad to get my sport climbs better. [Sean]: Okay. [Will] : I wanted to be better at sport climbing. [Sean]: Oh, [Will] : that's a weird way to go. So I was using trad as my training tool because- [Sean]: Why is that? ... [Will] : the ability to hand jam, finger locks. You don't [Sean]: hand jam on, a- [Will] : But to be able to learn how to do that- Opened up a lot of rest spots on sport climbs for me. So trad was teaching me where the rest spots were. [Sean]: Oh, that's cool. [Will] : What am I looking for? That's cool. What can I use here that's gonna develop my sport climbing better? [Sean]: That's cool. [Will] : And it, it helped. It really did. Yeah. It's [Sean]: like another tool, right? [Will] : Yeah. Yeah. Just another tool. And I remember, finishing the season, I did 30 laps on Sleepwalking my first season, and I'd always get right to the crux at the top and blow the last move. And I was like, "Oh my God." So then the next year I was like, "I really wanna get Sleepwalking. Really wanna get that." So I would set like these goals for myself, these little project goals- They're great ... which I find really fun, [Sean]: Motivating, [Will] : right? But yeah, so my second year I wanted to... My first year I did 75 routes my first season. Next year I was like, "If I did 75 last year and I started late, maybe I can hit 100. So my goal this year is to hit 100 new climbs, red point. Red point, on site, whatever." Yeah. It's clean, new routes. Haven't touched them before. [Sean]: 100. [Will] : Yeah. [Sean]: That's great. [Will] : my 100th route, I tried to make Courage 11A at, Castle. Blew it. It was not my hundredth route. blew it at the top, took a major whip down, like really far, smashing in between the dihedral and the arete- ... and just bouncing off. It's [Sean]: terrifying. Oh, I know this route. Oh my God. I hate that r- I hate that route. It's like a pinball through a- Yeah ... cheese grater. [Will] : So I got really scared after that, and, so I kept going with my routes. I kept going, and the ticks started getting higher. I was like, "Jesus, I'm at 200 ticks now, 200 new routes in the season." [Sean]: I'm [Will] : like, " [Sean]: May-" Oh my God. [Will] : Yeah, I was like, "Maybe I can hit 250." I hit 250... I hit 249. I made Courage my 250. I was not climbing anything else- Oh until I got Courage, and I- Interesting ... set out in the morning. It was super early. Temperatures, conditions were perfect. Texture was there. Friction was good, and, I whipped in the same spot. I got down, and it started to sprinkle. [Sean]: Oh, [Will] : yeah. I was like, "Oh my God, this is like..." And this is, December. [Sean]: Perfect moisture content. [Will] : Yeah, so it was like... it was December. I was like, "Man, this is, this is my last chance to be able to do this." So I went up again, just as it started to spit, and, it was a little bit greasy. Got the send, so Courage ended up being my 250th climb, and I wanted to break the 5.12 barrier. so I ended up getting five that year, and I thought Sleepwalking- Oh ... was gonna be my first one, 'cause I put so many laps- Yeah ... on it. I had it memorized. But it wasn't. in my sleep I could do every single move. And it was funny, because, I went with, Mikey and Ben Todd that year, the second year, and I was like, "Oh, I'm not gonna go for it, but I'll hang the draws for you. I don't think I'm ready for Sleepwalking. I'll hang the draws for you, and then you can go for it, Mikey." And I got it hanging the draws. 'Cause I wasn't even thinking about it. You took the pressure off yourself. I took the pressure off myself- Yeah ... and it just- That works sometimes ... I hit flow state after the first crux. Super cool. And [Sean]: it just felt super [Will] : good, so then I started working on Plastic Thugs with Ben, which is another great route right beside it. [Sean]: Man, this is exciting, 'cause there's so many new r- routes out there that I've... I just haven't had projects for a long time. Yeah. [Will] : But yeah, Sleepwalking is, definitely up there- Yeah for a classic for me. [Sean]: since we're on the topic, what are some of your other favorite routes in the province? [Will] : Ooh, Chameleon's gonna come up there for sure. not because of the grade, but because of the type of climb that it is. [Sean]: Interesting. [Will] : It is so classic to Nova Scotia climbing. [Sean]: That's crazy. [Will] : It's three boulder problems- [Sean]: Stacked ... [Will] : in one. Stacked- [Sean]: Yeah ... [Will] : with two really good rest spots between them. yeah. Three different styles of climbing. [Sean]: Totally. [Will] : Yeah. you have this blank initial start And for me, it was an explosive dyno [Sean]: Yeah, I know. I saw videos of you doing that. [Will] : yeah. [Sean]: So that- It's crazy. you have to... Yeah, I had to jump as well, but- [Will] : Yeah ... yeah It j- And, but, oh, what's her name? She was, she was, like, your fourth, the s- Oh, [Sean]: Samantha? [Will] : Samantha. She got it the same year I got it, I think, or she got it the year before. She got it the season before. [Sean]: Okay. Yeah. [Will] : She does dyno. Even when I met her at Main crease, she was like, "I can't believe you're dyno-ing that." So w- when I got on it with Will Bland, he, Yeah, she got [Sean]: it before Will. [Will] : She got it before Will, yeah. Yeah. and Will definitely got it before me. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : I w- I didn't even wanna get on Chameleon. I got on it once, and that's when I r- I did a full rupture pulley on my A2. [Sean]: On, going for that- On my [Will] : third [Sean]: year right-hand crimp? [Will] : So I, me and Ben Todd worked on that for, four hours, almost five hours. Yeah. Just the middle section, and I- [Sean]: Oh, [Will] : yeah ... could not get it. [Sean]: That's the cool section, eh? [Will] : It's so cool. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : And then I went to the gym the next day, and I was just climbing just an easy route, and pop. [Sean]: Oh, you're all war- [Will] : worn out Full... Yeah, full A2 pulley, so I was off for, two months before my Romney trip. But, yeah, Chameleon, very cool, dyno first start, and then you're into this really awesome technical boulder. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : Bite down, grit through this. Beautiful white granite in there. Beautiful movement. Yeah. That heel hook up to, this little crimp, and that awesome side pull, and then it's done. you don't even care about the bolt. You're like, "I got this." And then you get up to this beautiful ledge where I joked about, having a jacket ready so I can- Totally ... warm up. [Sean]: you [Will] : can change everything. Yeah. You can put a lawn chair. You could have a picnic. Yeah. Yeah. And then you get onto- Yeah this really exposed, very intricate slab at the top, and for me was just, it was so many moves. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : So many small, little minuscule things that can either kick you off or keep you on, and it reminded me of the start of Crema Le Crimp, which is another- Yeah. Yeah ... one of my favorite classics. I love that climb. [Sean]: Yeah. So the top of Chameleon, how... What would you grade that? [Will] : See, I don't know, 'cause it- [Sean]: It's so freaking weird. [Will] : It's And I find grades so very tough because- It flowed. it just, it flowed well [Sean]: Huh. When you find, the- [Will] : Some, routes that are around that don't have that flow, or you're forced to go in a certain way because that's the way the... We'll call it the set- the developer, the setter. That's the way the setter put the rocks- yeah, yeah ... And, or th- that's the way they put the bolts- The bolts ... to force you into this- [Sean]: Yeah ... [Will] : weird way. Contrived. I would- Sometimes they're contrived, yeah ... yeah, it's very contrived, then I would rate those harder. But Chameleon really flowed, and it allowed you to break down the sequences very easily, and you could work each boulder problem on their own. [Sean]: Yeah. I'm so pleased to hear that, that you, enjoy the route so much, and people seem to be enjoying it. Yeah. [Will] : Because- I see a lot of traffic on it, and it's great in, [Sean]: I, I put that up years and years ago. It was the hardest thing I've ever done. and I always felt a bit weird about it, 'cause it was not... It was three stack boulder problems. Totally different in nature, which is kinda why I called it Chameleon. And I thought, it's not consistent. It's not really a route," in my head, I was like, "This is just a- That's [Will] : interesting ... [Sean]: this is just a bundle of boulder problems," and I didn't th- and I wasn't even sure if the grade was right, [Will] : Okay. [Sean]: So I'm so glad people are climbing it. From- I really am ... [Will] : yeah, from what I've climbed, last year, last year I think I did 10 5.12s and then the 13, and I, think it's graded properly. And it was so good because my son got to belay me on it. like, all my big, and he belayed me on Transformer, which I got, the next month after Chameleon. [Sean]: Very cool. [Will] : And, yeah. It's, that's, my favorite journey this year, is, experiencing this with my son, sharing this with my son. Yeah, tell me about [Sean]: that. It seems like it's brought you closer together [Will] : or something. Big time, yeah. Yeah. I remember his first outdoor climb was Blueberry Express, like, when you talk about climbs that are in my, in my top favorites, I love Blueberry Express because that was his first outdoor climb. [Sean]: Where's that again? [Will] : that's at Gibraltar That's that super long five- Oh, yeah ... seven, five, six. Yeah, [Sean]: yeah, that's [Will] : lovely. Yeah. The super long one. That was his first outdoor climb. [Sean]: you said yesterday, we were gonna meet up yesterday to- Yeah, And we went to- ... interview, to do a podcast, but your son called you and said, "Dad, I wanna go climbing." So you're like, "Screw the podcast." [Will] : Yeah, I don't, like saying... What 19-year-old kid wants to hang out with their dad? Oh, that's wonderful. I will absolutely drop everything I'm doing if he wants to go for a climb. [Sean]: Super cool. What's your son's name? [Will] : Bryston. [Sean]: Bryston. [Will] : Yeah. [Sean]: okay. Let's, before we leave the theme, like other favorite routes, 'cause b- 'cause what's cool is, like you're so- addicted and stoked, you're checking out all the crags we have. Yeah. Like I saw you were down at the Zoo. [Will] : Love [Sean]: the Zoo. Which is a remote, weird place to go to. I'm [Will] : telling you, man, that is an adventure and a half. so I actually wrote down a list of things that I really, 'cause I didn't wanna miss any, but tr- Awesome Transformers up there. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : Battle Slam, [Sean]: so [Will] : good. Battle [Sean]: Slam, okay. [Will] : That is so good. Okay. I love that opening move. [Sean]: Really? [Will] : Cool. And then you're flying through the middle, and then there's just like this precarious toe to get up and- Is [Sean]: it 530? That's the one Therien put up, you thought [Will] : was- 5.12b. [Sean]: Oh, okay. [Will] : Yeah, 5.12b. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : Sure. I would say that's accurate. Sins, love Sins. [Sean]: So good. [Will] : I do, I think it is harder than 11D. I would almost switch Maya with Sins, but everyone says if Maya's a f- a, true 12A, which I think it is, I think Sins is probably 12AB. Yeah, I think it's very hard. It's pumpy. Yeah, it's very specific. It's so cool. I have to do very different beta. Some people go to the left right in the, 45 dihedral, we'll call it, and go up that way. I skip that. I can't reach it. I'm straight up the crack. [Sean]: Okay. [Will] : Yeah. [Sean]: Yeah, [Will] : And I do this rollover high hand foot match, and then, get into it. [Sean]: You're talking about that crux, the, first crux really. The first [Will] : crux, yeah. [Sean]: And so on that route, so Henry Morrow, I interviewed him last month or whatever. Yeah. So he had a question for you. He said, "Do you resent people that are taller?" "In terms of, their ability to climb Sins and Transgressions?" 'Cause I know a lot of... Like how, tall are you? [Will] : I'm only 5'6". [Sean]: 5'6". Yeah. And I know that route is quite challenging- It's tough ... for someone that's 5'6". Yeah. I'm 5'8" and I- That, first- ... I can get through it ... [Will] : first clip, yeah, no problem. Second clip is super tough, very reachy. [Sean]: Oh. [Will] : And I, I still find I'm working inequities- Right now I got on it, once [Sean]: You're right. That's the Shawn Smith that route that, [Will] : Yeah ... [Sean]: peels off to the right [Will] : of- It does, yeah ... of Sins. And I, would s- I would say it's a little bit harder than Sins. It is a beautiful line. It is so good. It is gorgeous. Absolutely [Sean]: gorgeous. [Will] : That, but for me, the crux is still the beginning- Okay ... of Sins. Oh. That start move to get to the second bolt because of the reach. So- Yeah, to answer Henry's question a little bit. Yeah, what's your [Sean]: answer? Yeah, [Will] : a little bit. But, I don't mind being a short climber because it definitely opens up chimneys in a better way for me in some cases. Okay. It allows me to get into tight, compact boxes to rest. drop knees and downturn stuff, like are- Yeah always in my toolbox. [Sean]: Are you flexible? [Will] : I'm very flexible. Yeah. I try to do yoga almost every day. [Sean]: Right. [Will] : That's part of my training. That's bad for [Sean]: you. [Will] : It's right. It's bad. I'm kidding. Yeah. but that's part of my training, i- is supplementary stuff that people would just normally do as, a mindfulness or rehab. Like a l- a lot of rehab stuff. Ooh, I [Sean]: like that. [Will] : Very, yeah. A lot of rehab stuff is my actual training. It's gonna maintain my body a lot longer than going and doing big, heavy reps. What do you mean? What do you mean? like I do a rice bucket workout. I have a rice bucket full. It's got, 10 or 15 kilos of rice in it, and there's 10 exercises that I do. And when you first start out, it's all time. [Sean]: Is this something you would have done for arm wrestling too? [Will] : Something I did for arm wrestling. Yeah. So it helps with the pump factor. How can I recover between sets very- [Sean]: That [Will] : reduces [Sean]: your pump? [Will] : Yes, 'cause it takes your pump to a certain extreme. So you're in doing the workout for exactly one minute. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : And then you have 30 seconds off before you go back in for the next minute. [Sean]: Okay. [Will] : And you do this 10 times- [Sean]: Okay, so you [Will] : get- ... with 10 different exercises ... you get super-duper pumped. Super pumped- Oh ... and you have 30 seconds to recover. [Sean]: Oh, interesting. [Will] : So I have a 30-second rest, so I can find- Ooh ... 30-second rest on a climb. Yeah. Okay, I know I can shake this out. I know that I still have this in my tank. I need a [Sean]: bucket of rice in the [Will] : ice box. I almost brought it to see if you would try it. it's eye-opening. I've heard [Sean]: about this for years, but I never, like- [Will] : yeah ... I don't know why ... I found it on ironmine.com. Okay. It was an old rock climbing website that I found. Yeah, And I stumbled upon it looking for- I think [Sean]: it's good for recovery of finger injuries and stuff. [Will] : It's good for recovery of your extensors. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : so it's all extensor work- Dude, I'm gonna do that ... and things that you don't normally. I'll send you the workout. Rice bucket. I've got a PDF of it. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : but yoga, [Sean]: Do you do hang boards and stuff? what do you- [Will] : I, I did. I used to do... I used to hang board a lot. I don't enjoy it. now I do whatever you call, you, just have the wooden handle and you pick up the weights. Okay. You pin on it. [Sean]: Okay. [Will] : Whatever you call that. I do that, probably two or three times a week. Takes about 15 minutes. I need to do something every single day physically for me to feel healthy if I miss a day or if I miss two or three days, like I really notice it in my mind and my body and how my stress levels and all that stuff. Like I need something physical in my life. And, so if I can't get out climbing, then I'm gonna be doing something in my gym. I have a gym at my house, so I can either do some- [Sean]: not a climbing gym, but a workout gym [Will] : ... just a workout gym. Yeah. Yeah, so I've got like a squat rack and full dumbbell set, and I got a row machine and stuff. So I'll do some rows, or I'll do some lock off training. I really, see the benefit in lock off training. Like just getting up to the chin-up bar, hit the top, rest for five, or pause for five, go all the way down, go to the top, come at 90, pause for five, go down, go up again for 45, and do that, and then just go to failure. it allows me to get into a position where I'm gonna clip or place a piece of gear, and I, can hold on one-handed and not panic. [Sean]: I like the sounds of these workouts. These seem- [Will] : Yeah, I try- [Sean]: ... more applicable than, I don't know- [Will] : Yeah, I try to pick- ... doing squats or something ... something that's really gonna apply for me outdoors. I don't, care about the indoor stuff. Even when I was moonboarding, I loved moonboarding, especially the one, the 2019, I think it is, or 2021, whatever one is at the, Myth location. [Sean]: You're asking the wrong guy. [Will] : The newest one with the wooden holds. I find that one, for me, my height-wise, allows me to hit my dead point, and it really exposed how shitty my footwork was. Especially when I started training at the Godigen one. And that's why I used to videotape all of my climbs. Oh, yeah. [Sean]: Oh, yeah. [Will] : was to really dial in, okay, I thought I did this with my foot, and I look, and I'm like, it's just h- I could see air between my toe and the hold. I was not- Oh, You were- ... precisely on it ... yeah. I wasn't applying pressure. Yeah. And once I learned how to apply pressure with my toes like I would my hands- then my climbing got better. It got more consistent. I was able to- [Sean]: Which you get, you can get from yoga, right? I, feel like- Yeah ... applying pressure in all those- Yeah ... different places at the same [Will] : time- Absolutely. Yeah [Sean]: ... is yoga. And like [Will] : being flexible and, h- and having proper blood flow to those areas and have that elasticity of your, tendons and knowing your body well- Yeah can, allow you to get through some of these cruxes. [Sean]: So all the, all these complementary skills that can add to your climbing Toolbox again ... [Will] : climbing toolbox, yeah. Just as much as you could throw in that toolbox. Yeah, And then when you need it, you know it's there. Yeah. I don't think enough people, or maybe they're doing it and I just don't see it, but there, there's a lack of soft skill training for, stuff, I think, in the community. and I think with CNS now, and I think we might get to that later- For sure ... we might try to introduce some of that soft skill- [Sean]: That's a great idea ... [Will] : learning back into the community. Yeah. [Sean]: So by soft skills, you're talking about the anchors- [Will] : Cleaning anchors ... and systems and- Setting, just understanding risk, Yeah. This is great ... approaching a climb, like what are you thinking about? Just a little bit the ethics of climbing, because, like it's critical to not lose any more cliffs than we have already lost. We lost Trove Cove last year, was, devastating to me. That was my favorite. I really enjoyed it. I hate that crag is gone. [Sean]: It's-- So your, point is And, let's get into it now, though. So you took on the role of, president of Climb Nova Scotia, I think, about a year ago? [Will] : No, seven mon- I'm seven months in now. [Sean]: Seven month- that's it, eh? Yeah. Oh, yeah, Yeah. Last fall you got into it. [Will] : That's right. I took it on, because it was something very important, that was not filled. it's really important for the community, I think, to have that position filled and have somebody passionate about it. And I think an outdoor climber is, Key to be in that position. no offense to gym climbers, not at all. [Sean]: Whoa, yeah, [Will] : But I, I think it, like- [Sean]: None taken. [Will] : Yeah, I'm still so new into the community. four years, five years is, nothing really. I didn't know what to expect. I knew there was a lot of work to be done- behind the scenes. It's a big, It w- I kn- it was a monster. Yeah. To me- Yeah it seemed like a monster. I need to make sure everyone's on the same page with CNS. We understand that this is this, and we are on the same page, and we're looking to move forward with this, and this is the vision, and this is the priorities and all the stuff. [Sean]: This is your vision or the group's vision? [Will] : No, the board's vision- Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I have a vision. I have- Of course ... I have things that I would like to accomplish and things that we've put into play already that have, to me, made a big impact on how we, collaborate with Sport Nova Scotia- Nice, yeah ... because they're obviously our funding stream right now. Yep. We've built our website back up to be, credible, have some stuff on there. We're still working on it. We're still building- good ... on it and get things on there that are important to new people getting out, 'cause there's a lot of new people getting out to the crags, right? [Sean]: There is a ton of new people. [Will] : Yeah, it's cool. we're gonna do an ethics clinic with, East Peak, coming up soon, I think in July. So it's gonna be just a free fireside chat about how you should approach a cliff, how important these are to us, the Leave No Trace, the noise volume, things like that. 'Cause these are things that really messed us up for Trove Cove. We don't wanna see a rehash of this. We have to build these relationships with people, and we're reliant on the owner to have this relationship and to understand our ethic behind climbing, understand, their liability or their lack of liability- Yeah, for climbing. Exactly. And I think liability really- [Sean]: That's a concern for sure [Will] : right, that really sparks concern with new people into climbing 'cause they don't know anything about climbing. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : so it, you have to s- [Sean]: We have a lot of cliffs on private land. Like- [Will] : Yeah, First Face is on one, so Mick I know has a really strong relationship with the owner there. Yep. So that's fantastic. [Sean]: Steiner's have been great, to us over the years. [Will] : Yeah, so it's important that we, make sure that these new folks that are going out straight from the gym to the crag understand these things and understand the importance of it. Don't take your stereo out there. Not a lot of people like pets at the cliff, right? There's, there is a happy medium there. a lot of people like to take their dogs out. Some climbers don't like that. I, don't mind. I love a- Yeah, I don't mind ... I love animals. [Sean]: But you're right, some people do. [Will] : But some people don't because the dogs- Yeah ... might get around the belayer. They might get around the ropes, and they're screwing them up, and- [Sean]: I remember being at a cliff in this- freaking couple, they had a dog and it's, the dog's name was Rock. [Will] : Okay. So they'd be screaming- [Sean]: So they'd be screaming Rock ... they'd be screaming Rock. [Will] : Oh my God. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : Yeah. [Sean]: Could you imagine? Yeah. I think that was in, [Will] : That's awful ... [Sean]: the New. I think it was down in the New. [Will] : Okay. So yeah, so we're really trying to... We've, really locked in our administrative stuff. we're updating the bylaws and doing the full first review since 2000. Year 2000. so we're, gonna make sure that's a really nice polished document and, we're, really looking to do, these small community events. Like we started one with Legacy Walls, in May. That was wonderful. It was really good. Awesome. [Sean]: How many routes are there? 'Cause Henry was like, "There's like-" [Will] : 56. 56. Okay. There's 56 routes there right now. I'm gonna try to get up with Cole and put two routes up with him, 'cause as soon as I seen them, I was like, "Wow, that's, a beautiful line." Nice. And I seen his face light up. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : And, it was really great to experience that with Cole. He's a really cool kid. [Sean]: Nice. [Will] : Cole is- Really jazzed about life, really jazzed about climbing. [Sean]: He's super positive. Yeah. [Will] : Super positive, yeah. He's got a really good vibe. [Sean]: I can't wait to check the, that crag out. [Will] : Love climbing with him. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : And, yeah, so that's where we're at with CNS. we're really just trying to be credible with, Sport Nova Scotia, like really, show that we're a structured, organized, sport organization. We obviously have two streams now. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : You were telling me about that at the [Sean]: AGM, which- we've got the PRO- PRO ... [Will] : which is the outdoor recreational side. Okay. And then we've got PSO, the Provincial- Sport ... Sport Organization. Okay. And that's the indoor competitive side. yeah, And, they- [Sean]: It's become a thing, right? [Will] : It's, become a thing. In the last 20 years. Yeah. Yeah. It's kinda migrated into... CNS no longer is just about access and development, right? It's, absolutely the, top tier pillar of what we stand for is maintaining access and development That competitive side, it's a very important side, especially with Canada Games coming up next year. There's things that we have to do as an organization to make sure that they are eligible- [Sean]: Right [Will] : to be able to compete. Support those athletes and develop, yeah. And if we don't do that, if we don't step up and do these things, we fail on the athlete side. We fail them- Yeah ... because they can no longer compete. We as the organization failed them. So we need to step up. Even though they are a minute part of the financial structure from Sport Nova Scotia, they just haven't built their credibility yet. Yeah. We've built our credibility, and right now we get on average 10 to $12,000 a year to try to do the things that we're, all those things that we're doing, whether it's development or if it's events like Boulder Fest or Ice Fest, things like that. And, now the PSO side is the, child of CNS, and they need to build their own credibility, and they need to build their own policies and procedures and- [Sean]: So might that become a separate entity, like Climb Nova Scotia? [Will] : and I had that conversation with Sport Nova Scotia when I first took this role on. And once they reach a certain credible foundation, then we can look at, once they're, good with their financials, 'cause they only get $2,000 a year. [Sean]: Okay. [Will] : They need a lot of money to be able to train their coaches, to be able to send them to location. [Sean]: And a lot of effort, man. Like, all this- So much effort ... all this volunteer work- Yeah ... that you're doing, and the board, thank you to you and the- Yeah, no worries ... and that crew. there's so much to do. And you mentioned, establishing or reestablishing credibility with Sport Nova Scotia- Yeah ... to re-strengthen that relationship. I feel like there's also, there's alway- there's always been a gap between, the climbing community and this organizing body. I think, it's important to have credibility there. [Will] : Yeah. [Sean]: Right? [Will] : Absolutely. That was actually one of my first mandates and one of my first things when I joined the board was I wanna be clear, I wanna be transparent, and I wanna tell the community everything that we're doing so that they know we're here for them. We're here for you guys. They need to see the value. [Sean]: We need to see the value. [Will] : It's your board. Yeah. Yeah. You need to see the value. You need to see the value of membership. What does that mean when I have a membership? what does that get me? It's $40 a year. it's minimal. Like I said, you pay for a membership at Martock, it's $350 for a year. You're going out here and you're climbing for free every day that you want. Yeah. But somebody put those bolts in those routes. [Sean]: Somebody cleaned- So give us the, high level bullet points of what, value do members get from the organization? [Will] : Right now, so right now, access, it doesn't give you access. we're not, gonna restrict you from climbing in certain areas if you don't have a membership. That was one of the ideas for Trove Cove was maybe only members can go there, and we can police it that way, or, the Glove Wall, maybe we can talk to the people and maybe Glove Wall does turn into a membership only phase. But acce- it ties into access, and it ties into development. people need to put bolts into these, rocks. They need to make sure that the anchors are safe, maintenance of them, maintenance of the trails. [Sean]: Hard- hardware costs. [Will] : Yeah, hardware costs. all of the tools that go into it. the Even just our website, like the cost of, running our website, running our communications team, putting out social media posts, exposing people to new things. just all of those things kinda tie into what a membership is, and it allows the community to give something back, right? The money goes directly back into the community. like for Legacy Walls, we were able to fully support phase one of development for Legacy Walls, and hopefully we'll be able to assist, Chris and Cole with phase two. [Sean]: And all the efforts hopefully, at Main Face as well, that, that Ben's been doing. [Will] : Yeah, and all... Yeah, so we're gonna do a Clean and Climb. I just announced it this morning. We're gonna do a Clean and Climb at Main Face. Great. we're gonna focus on a few areas. So I was w- talking to Adam over the past week on what areas we wanna focus on. So that is also... you don't have to be a member to come out and support. obviously more hands the better, but being able to contribute to that will allow us to give money in a priority basis to the folks that are actually doing the business behind the scenes. [Sean]: What do we do for boulderers? [Will] : So we also... So predominantly, the cleaning climbs were for boulder areas only. So now I wanna do two. I wanna do one specifically ro- for rope climbing and then, do one for bouldering, but we still do the Clean and Climb for them. and we- [Sean]: Is there a weekly bouldering series outside still or no? [Will] : So they did, they still do the Thursday Night Bouldering. Nice. the liability is a big thing. Is it? The insurance, right? The insurance is like $4,600 a year- [Sean]: Oh, wow ... [Will] : for basic board liability insurance. Yeah. And- [Sean]: And that covers those kind of events or no? [Will] : So you have to be a member. Yeah. You need to be a member to go. It says, so that's why I made a post that if we're gonna have a organized event, you need to be a member. It's mandatory. Also, it's helmet mandatory [Sean]: also. To boulder? [Will] : So that's a question. Dude. It just says to climb. I'm not making a boulderer put a helmet on. Oh my God, I'll be f***ing running to Nova Scotia. I, but I'm an advocate, a big advocate for helmets on the cliff. [Sean]: Sure. yeah. [Will] : if I'm doing a buddy check for somebody that I'm belaying, if they don't have a helmet on, I'm calling them out every single time. Even though you kn- I know that you don't wanna wear a helmet, I'm still calling you out on it. [Sean]: Most people wear helmets these days. I never did. And [Will] : it's, it's- [Sean]: We never did back in the day, but- [Will] : Even, when they're trying to red point a project, I'm seeing a lot of people without helmets on And it's crazy. It's crazy how quick something can change. [Sean]: Yeah, it's true. [Will] : we live in a chossy province [Sean]: What are you saying? [Will] : For, a lot of our clients. And, if they don't get traffic- [Sean]: CNS needs to clean up the choss ... [Will] : CNS needs to clean up the choss. But if, those, some of these areas don't get traffic, like it just, it gets- [Sean]: Yeah [Will] : dirty quickly. [Sean]: Yeah. But in terms of, those events and requiring, membership, that's not a bad ask. I mean- No ... whether they're gonna get their $40 back on going to a few bo- bouldering nights. Yeah. maybe they do. Maybe that's worth it- Yeah ... directly to someone. But beyond that, it's the supporting, development of a community- [Will] : Exactly [Sean]: network, and access, and safety, and education, all that stuff. Yeah. So I think it's, I think it's great. And we're gonna start requiring it for us. So Boulderfest is back on again. [Will] : Boulderfest is back on. [Sean]: Which is sweet. [Will] : It is 100% on. When, [Sean]: when is... what's the date [Will] : on that? So it's gonna be the first weekend, long weekend in August. [Sean]: Okay. Okay. [Will] : Obviously, there's gonna be- Weather ... a primary day and a weather day. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : but it will be on. We're There's a lot of moving parts for Boulderfest. [Sean]: Yeah, [Will] : right. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : I didn't like how it was, we'll say, not communicated out to the community quick enough that Boulderfest was off the one year. [Sean]: For sure, yeah. [Will] : Yeah ... there was a lot of moving parts, and each moving part is linked to the other. As soon as you pull one, the dominoes just go. And if we can create events that aren't as restricted to these m- parts that are all linked together, then maybe the event could've still went on, maybe. one factor we're looking at is maybe we don't do food at Boulderfest this year. It'll drive the cost down significantly, right? It'll save almost two grand, plus all of the equipment that it requires- Yeah ... to take out, and all of the- Part, [Sean]: it's part of the fun, though, [Will] : It is part of the fun, but it is on- [Sean]: You're not gonna take away kegs of beer, are you? [Will] : But it [Sean]: Is that still a thing? [Will] : but it is, on, the idea chopping board. Do we take away- [Sean]: With the, the goal of minimizing cost. [Will] : Minimizing cost, minimizing the ticket price, minimizing the amount of moving parts that it takes to get- [Sean]: But the cost- ... Boulderfest going ... I don't feel like the cost has been prohibitive. it's such a popular thing. [Will] : It is a popular- [Sean]: And if people aren't paying- And, you're ma- and [Will] : you maximize to 100, [Sean]: If you're, if someone, if the ticket cost for food drops by 15 bucks, people are still gonna f- spend 15 bucks on alcohol- On food, yeah ... so there's no difference, really. but there's a lot of moving parts for CNS and the volunteer side, and- Yeah and- And that's the, yeah, it's volunteers ... the equipment, because a lot of the equipment is no longer there, right? [Will] : some of it has just been unserviceable and not been replaced. [Sean]: Are we talking about porta potties? [Will] : Stoves and, porta potties are gone. [Sean]: I know you- [Will] : Yeah, so we gotta work on that. at least I got volunteers to clean them, clean the nonexistent porta potties right now, I got volunteers. Oh, you, okay. But yeah, so Boulderfest will go. [Sean]: Awesome. [Will] : whether or not it is the traditional one that we've seen in the past, where it's a full massive event, I think just getting... And we've proven it over time, even, Nathan's Mainface Rendezvous events- Yeah ... which aren't CNS related, they have great turnout They have great responses back, great experiences from the people that you talk to when they go to them. I did one to Camarosca last year or the year before, and really all of those things proved that you just need a date on the calendar- Yeah. Right, and people will go to it. They're just like, "Yeah, awesome." There's- There's a lot of people out there right now ... they're gonna circle that calendar and be like, "Okay, awesome. There's an event there." Totally. "I'm gonna go do that thing." They don't need all of the things that go with that. [Sean]: Right. [Will] : Everyone's an adult. Right, Everyone's an adult. They can take care of themselves. Yeah. Everyone goes camping. I like, [Sean]: oh, I see what you're saying. [Will] : You just throw- I see what you're saying, yeah, a dart on a calendar, and, you're just creating a social opportunity for people to get together and share a passion, and I love that. [Sean]: Very cool. Very cool. yeah, I really appreciate you taking on this mantle, and all the board that's behind, behind you- They're working really hard, yeah ... 'cause it's, a ton of work, and but there feels like there's, there's some positive energy out there- right now, [Will] : There's some momentum. [Sean]: There's some momentum that's being built within the community at large. all, the gyms that are operating and the Granite Guides- [Will] : Yeah ... [Sean]: Climb Nova Scotia and Legacy Walls and, Adam's work at Main Face. It's, there's a lot going on, and there's a podcast happening now. There's a podcast. I don't know if you've heard of this thing. I [Will] : don't know if [Sean]: I've heard of it. Yeah, [Will] : There's a podcast. [Sean]: And, thanks [Will] : to CNS for helping that ... thank you for [Sean]: having... [Will] : this is... It's been really educational. It's been really fun. [Sean]: It's been fun for me, too, for sure ... [Will] : yeah, I love to hear, I still, I think Rich's is still my favorite- Oh, cool podcast. Yeah. Huh. I just, love his style. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : I love who he is as a person. [Sean]: Yeah, he's great. [Will] : He's a great climber. He's a great person. [Sean]: Yeah. Yeah. [Will] : I got a lot of time for Rich. [Sean]: we've got such a diverse community. [Will] : Yeah. [Sean]: It's been really fun for me to get to know people, and- there's different styles, different approaches. [Will] : That's right, yeah. [Sean]: All right, let's, jump back 'cause, you were talking, you had a list of your favorite routes. Yeah, And I think we stalled out on, route number two or three. We stalled out on route two. [Will] : Yeah. Yeah, let me bring this up. aret, a- speaking of Rich, Arete Acadien. Where's, that one? At, Gibraltar [Sean]: Gibraltar. [Will] : Oh, well- Rich put that up last year ... one of his new ones. Yeah, It is stellar. Awesome. It is so good. [Sean]: Awesome. [Will] : Quality climb. It is very balancey. There's very definite cruxes throughout it. It's crimpy. It's just ha- It has beautiful movement on great quality rock. I love it. Wonderful. It's absolutely classic. Wonderful. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : Creme de la Crimp, I talked about. Yep. That's a Becky Craig route. Adam's new route, Joy Squirts- Yeah ... which is not 11C. I'll tell you that right now. It's not 11B either. I think it's a true 11D. I think it is a beautiful line. I think people need to get on this route. Awesome. It is so- Shout out to [Sean]: Joy Squirts. [Will] : Yeah, shout out to Joy Squirts. Between the Evolution at Cape Clear. 10D... It's either 10D or 11D. I don't remember. Trad route mixed. Cape Clear on the head wall. [Sean]: Oh, Greg, will bolt that thing up. [Will] : Beautiful line. so that's up there for me. Heavy Petter. [Sean]: Heavy Petter, nice. [Will] : That is so good. It is good. for me, [Sean]: like- That's another Becky Craig, Yeah ... Jonathan Graham route ... [Will] : take the grades, if it flows, if you can get in a flow state on a climb, that is beautiful. Heavy Petter- [Sean]: That's a nice one, yeah [Will] : ... is, I think a five-seven or a five-eight. And, it's at the pe- ... [Sean]: I thought it was five-nine. [Will] : It may be. I think there's a bolt in there. Yeah ... it's at Columbus [Sean]: It doesn't make it easy. [Will] : It's really good. Dude. I absolutely encourage people to get on that. [Sean]: Yeah, that's a nice one. [Will] : anything on the Keyhole Wall is so good, 1492. [Sean]: Oh, that's my favorite. [Will] : Origins of Life. these are all just stellar climbs. I love Columbus. I think it's a beautiful place to go. Oh yeah, Heavy Petters up there [Sean]: Heavy Petter? [Will] : Yeah, very good [Sean]: just let me, find him. I'm almost there. Where the f*** is that? [Will] : Probably in the 200 pages. [Sean]: I have a hard time reading this guidebook, to be honest. that was... Oh, I was involved in that. [Will] : Nice. [Sean]: Jonathan Graham, Becky Craig, Dave Blanchard, and- Oh, I'll take it off my list then ... Sean Cassidy. Garbage. Yeah, garbage. Huh. Three stars, 5.9. [Will] : Yeah. And then, yeah, so I'd say those are my classics. My projects this year is probably gonna be, I'd like to get inequities. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : That'd be nice. [Sean]: I... My ribs are recovering. [Will] : Yeah. [Sean]: Now- I would definitely work that with you ... I have to get some... I need a ri- rice bucket. [Will] : You need a rice bucket? [Sean]: I need to get, trained up just a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. And, would love to get on that with you. [Will] : Gotta send courage. [Sean]: No, I don't know about courage. [Will] : I'd like to get rid of, stop the screaming from my book. That's at, What's that? I think it was originally called The Potato Project at Castle. [Sean]: Okay. [Will] : I don't, I haven't climbed at Castle much. It's, to the left of Battle Slam. So you've got Golden Egg, Battle Slam, and then right around the corner, there's this shit line that goes up on three bolts. Yeah. [Sean]: Oh, God. [Will] : It's a Therien route. And, [Sean]: Therien doesn't put up shit routes, does he? Does he? [Will] : I don't know. I like, and we're- Obviously we're- I like being on a route knowing the person that put this route up, like getting that feel. Yeah. And you'll get a sense for that when you climb at Legacy. Once you start climbing three or four of the routes, you're like, "Okay, I know who Cole is as a person," type thing. [Sean]: Oh, interesting. [Will] : I- Cool ... I really get a feel- Yeah ... for how he's seeing this route. [Sean]: I, I can't wait to try those. You like to set goals, I know that. Yeah. But, I've never done this fully, but it would be a cool project for anybody to pick a developer- [Will] : and climb all their routes [Sean]: do, all the Willett routes- [Will] : Ooh ... [Sean]: in, a season. [Will] : That's interesting. [Sean]: Do all the Therien routes. [Will] : I like that. [Sean]: Do all the Benjamin routes. [Will] : That's kinda cool. [Sean]: And maybe- [Will] : I don't wanna do all the Benjamin routes. They're just- You would- ... it's too hard. You would... Yeah, there. He's crushing right now. [Sean]: He is. [Will] : He's crushing. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : Quietly- fly boys is- ... [Sean]: quietly crushing. [Will] : Ugh. But yeah, I like those goals. The, I had one goal to do all the sport routes at The Spot in one day. That was such a fun day. [Sean]: How many routes is that? [Will] : so there is- 27 sport routes [Sean]: Okay [Will] : And you have to climb one trad route to get to the top to do Temptation to get you 28 full routes in one day. [Sean]: Did you record your time? That could be one of these, [Will] : Nine hours, 50 minutes. [Sean]: There you go. Yeah. Okay. [Will] : 9:50. [Sean]: Nice. you talked about your time in the military. [Will] : Yeah. [Sean]: And we touched on this a little bit before we started rolling, and, tell me if you don't wanna talk about it. Yeah, sure, But I'm thinking of climbing and how it can benefit mental health, and- Yeah You- That's, a really- You went through some stuff that maybe- [Will] : Yeah, that's a really good, So I'm obviously retired. This is why I have so much-- A lot of people, "How do you get out so often? How do you do 250 routes?" [Sean]: And you're not that... You're 46. [Will] : I'm 46. You were telling, yep. Yeah. I'm, no longer working. I, last year was diagnosed with severe PTSD, major depressive disorder, and that was from my time in Afghanistan- in 2007. So a long time, dealt with that internally. [Sean]: And that was buried inside for a while. That was buried deep. [Will] : Yeah. Yeah. And, went through some stuff a few years ago that kinda triggered it really bad, and ended up not in a good spot. So climbing actually, ironically, going up, keeps me grounded, because you get into this flow state. You get into this... I l- I like when I'm on a climb, and I'm just... I can hear my breath, and I can hear my heart beating. And you're just, you're in the moment, and it's-- You're very present. And I love that. Whether it's on a 5.6, whether it's on a 5.12, I don't care what it is, but when you hit that moment in the climb where you're like, "I am so present right now. Nothing's gonna take me off this climb," it's beautiful. Yeah. And that keeps me focused. That keeps me grounded. It keeps me motivated to keep training, to get down into the basement, to get on the row machine, to make myself more fit, to be able to challenge maybe not more difficult climbs, but just get out there more frequently. I wanna be able to climb five days a week outside. how do you do that? How do you maintain that at 46 years old? Greg inspires me every day. He's out there every day doing stuff, and he's cleaning, and he's developing- Yeah ... and then he's getting-- He's climbing in between. Greg's in his early 60s. Yeah. He does so much for both the New Brunswick and the Nova Scotia community. And, the Mexican community. And the Mexican community. Yeah. Yeah. He's part Mexican now. I know. And, just love the guy. Love the attitude. And, that's something I would like to portray- Nice ... with my climbing. Me inspiring others by posting different climbs in different areas that I'm going to, and different people that I'm with, and sharing it with my son, and, these are things that [Sean]: you- [Will] : You put in your memory bank, right? And they just really solidify who you are as a person. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : And yeah, so climbing, it just, it gives me something to focus on outside of the military, outside of my therapy and my- [Sean]: Does that, d- does that just mask stuff, or does it help heal, in some way? [Will] : Helps heal. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : Yeah, it really does. yeah. The- It seems- 'Cause the negative self-worth, the negative self-talk, that all comes into this, and if I'm able to get out of my house, go to, I'm very much an introvert. You wouldn't know it ... not a lot of, not a lot of people know that- No ... but I'm very scared about big crowds and, and- [Sean]: But you take those risks. [Will] : I take those risks. You put yourself in those positions. because I love this sport. I love, and I call it a sport, but I, love this experience. It's an experience, and it really, it calms me. It takes me out of my comfort zone every single time I go to a cliff. climbing doesn't define me, nor does my PTSD. The climbing helps me get through the PTSD. It helps me get through those things that are saying, "You're not good enough. You're, broken." And, that's a lot of PTSD is you feel very broken. [Sean]: Yeah. [Will] : Yeah. Climbing is helping me to manage PTSD. [Sean]: That's awesome. You must be happy that's in your life. [Will] : It's important for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, very much. So yeah, climbing is really important to me. It's important to challenge my body, whether it is in climbing or in arm wrestling or in weightlifting or, anything. I need to be physically fit. I need to keep challenging myself so that I don't become stagnant. I don't become old. Yeah. I don't want to become old. Yeah, Well- I welcome aging, but I don't want to feel old. [Sean]: I like that, yeah. [Will] : Yeah. I welcome aging. Yeah. I want to be seasoned. Well-seasoned. Well-seasoned. [Sean]: But not old. [Will] : Yeah, but not old. [Sean]: I like it, man. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good goal. yeah, I guess in closing, what do you, what are you looking forward to? [Will] : I'll obviously want to climb everything. I wa- I'd, love to see more community getting to events, sharing experiences, posting about them, go to new places, experience everything you can, 'cause we've got a beautiful province to climb in, and just love it. Just enjoy it. Yeah. Appreciate what you have right now. [Sean]: Cool. That's awesome. thanks for coming in and doing this with me. [Will] : Yeah. No, thank you very much. Really appreciate it ... [Sean]: I really appreciate it too, so yeah. Yeah. What a sport. [Will] : Yeah. It's pretty awesome. [Sean]: Thanks so much, Arm Bender, and thanks to you and the Climb Nova Scotia board for all of your hard work to support our community. And as always, big shout-out to Seven Bays Bouldering, East Peak Climbing, and Unfiltered Brewing for supporting the podcast. If you want to learn more, please check out iceboxsessions.ca. We'll catch you all later. Arm wrestling seems very underground to me. [Will] : Exactly, yeah. [Sean]: But I guess so does climbing. [Will] : And, now you think of- [Sean]: But everybody I know climbs. [Will] : Yeah. Everyone I know arm wrestles. I've actually had people-- I will do a shout-out to Peter McVey for the first time in any of the podcasts. I was actually half expecting him to be hiding under one of your crash pads. [Sean]: He's been trying to get in here. Yeah. I, changed that- He's a lurker ... I changed the locks, actually. [Will] : He's a shady guy.