ICEBOX SESSIONS

_______________________________________________________________________ Sean: How did you get into climbing? Rich: I remember the first time I was introduced to climbing, but it was in the gym right after high school. And I think like coming out of high school, I had all these things I had seen in magazines, like National Geographic that I wanted to do is like this coming of age that I've I wanted to go skydiving.I wanted to scuba dive and I think probably somewhere in there was like climb a mountain or something. Sean: You had a bucket list. Rich: Yeah, of Farm Boy gets, free and is able to roam the world or, and have new experiences list. And anyway, I was on exchange program and living in pba area in Ontario and I heard of a climbing gym on the local military base. So I started going there. And climbing there like once a week. I think I only got there maybe half a dozen times, but I fell in love with her right away. My first kind of outdoor experience is when I was tree planting out in BC and it was the fall I think. And I was based out of Whistler at the time actually on this crew. And this older guy named Pete, he took me out for the day. We went up and climbed some of the roots around Whistler. And yeah, that was a first real experience out, out on the rock. Sean: So how many years is that? Rich: Yeah, over 20. Sean You getting tired of climbing it? Rich: It definitely has waxed and waned in terms of my interest, but I think that also reflects If I'm getting the opportunity to do it or not. Like when I have the opportunity to do it, I always rediscover it. But sometimes just with everything going on in life, like it's like surfing. I can go six months without surfing and I forget about it. Rich: Yeah and certainly my relationship to [climbing] has changed, but I'd say it's ingrained as part of me now that I'm not looking to stop it. I don't think I can I'm just intrigued by it all the time and different aspects of it. Sean: I know the feeling. Yeah. We've talked about this before. Yeah. It's hard to let it go. Rich: Yeah. Like in some ways your whole community or you see how your life has been structured around the connections you've made with climbing and it's such a outlet for, time alone, time with friends. Kind of exploration, adventure. Visiting places that you know really well that have some meaning to you. So there's all those aspects of it Sean: What do you get out of climbing that's maybe different than surfing? Or is it very similar? Rich: Yeah. They both can be individual sports, but haven't, Sean: you're not a team player? Rich: I used to play team sports, but yeah, it's nice to explore something on your own pace and just, inter interact with whatever the natural environment and Yeah. They both have that to offer the exploration side, similar communities at times, but also very different to others. Like overall, I'd say, like I've. Probably develop more like friendships through climbing. And I think it's because of the partnership base that you're reliant on largely. Oh yeah. Yeah. Sean: Bit more social than the cold shoulders in the water sometimes.? Rich: Surfing, I know a lot of people through surfing and a lot of good friends and, but yeah, it's a little bit different feel. That could be changing, but you're not, like when you're in the water, you're not dependent on somebody else to the same degree as when you're going climbing as a partnership. You're. It forces you to learn about that person a little bit differently? I think so. Sean: Here's a funny thing that I've thought of over the years. I don't know if we talked about it, but I've found the partnership that you have with someone doing a trad climbing but where you're someone's leading and then someone's falling, taking out the gear. That's, to me, a closer relationship than sport climbing is. And I found it pretty odd when you go to sport climbing area or you go sport climbing with people. Sometimes it would just be, rich is gonna do his route. And then he wraps down, pulls the draws, and Sean's left to figure out what he wants to do. Absolutely. You know what so much more of a Yeah. Me, a me thing, yeah. It feels I remember feeling sad about that. Rich: Yeah, I agree. When you do a tra route, you're often doing it together as to one person has to be leading it, but it's yeah, it's, Sean: and sometimes it's harder to, to second it. Rich: Yeah. Cleaning the gear and, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And certainly like a multi-pitch is like that, even more so any style too. So yeah. Sport stuff. Sean: Yeah. Yeah. Jumping to multi-pitch sport climbing you've done a fair bit of traveling and I'm thinking of Chico. Where I want to go. Tell us about some of your adventures there. You did a. What's that route? A classic five 12 Yeah. Thing. Rich: Yeah. ELs, Sendero. Lso. El Ro. Yeah. Lso. Cool. I've been there twice, so not a ton. But the first time was back in it was 2000 actually. I was in between work contracts in school and I ended up. Taking a bus down actually from New Brunswick as one does all the way down to Mexico. Because I heard there's this good deal through Greyhound where it's nine $99 anywhere in North America. Yeah. So yeah. Four or five days on a bus. That was an interesting adventure kind of cultural experience in and of itself, going through different parts of the states. Some of your closest Sean: friends are from that bus. Rich: Yeah. I don't know if I made too many friends on that bus. I kept to myself. Keep yourself. Yeah. Sean: Yeah. Don't look anybody in the eye. Rich: Yeah. There was, I did get pickpocketed actually. Ooh, yeah. Luckily I had my passport, but I lost my credit cards and a bunch of cash and stuff like that. Oh, shit. Yeah, it was experience. Anyway, so I, I made it down to Mexico and I had about a month and a bit there. And I went down by myself, but I knew that there were other people going down that that I knew and hadn't climbed with before that were from out west, okay. After I'd been there for a week, I hooked up with the Canmore crew and my good buddy Pete Thurlow at the time. Of course, yeah, Pete and our communal friend Nick and a bunch of others that were down there. And Pete and I ended up climbing a ton together down there and did some really awesome routes and traveled a little bit else where in Mexico. Climbing. Like we went to El Alto back when it wasn't really developed and camped out there. For about a week. And we also went surfing and had a great adventure. But anyway speaking of ELs Sandero, like I woke up every morning and stared at the big, the big massive there. And like El Sandero was a very prominent line, draws your attention. And I always remember daydreaming about that's a root, just the physical look of it was very striking and drew me. So it was something that I definitely registered in my mind as, something to dream about. Sean: And Oh, that was on your first trip? Which planted the seed for a later. Rich: Yeah, and we had done a route next to it called land of the Free, which was the, probably the highlight of that time. And I was. I had only been climbing a few years at that time, so it was like a big experience doing that route. At the time, it was just like a hard 11 or S 12, I don't know, 10 plus pitches or something, but felt somewhat remote at the time and not. Yeah, it just felt like a good experience and adventure. But yeah, anyway, fast forward, I don't know how long it was later, maybe 10, 15 years. But me and my buddy Kenny, all from Newfoundland. Pete, Sean: yeah, Kenny Tuach, Rich: yeah. Yeah, Kenny Tuach. We we ended up going down there to give it a go. We had a two week trip and we ended up getting a, up it in a couple days. Didn't send it free. Two. Kenny actually sent a lot of it free, like off onsite. So you guys slept Sean: on, on the way up. Rich: Yeah. There's halfway up is there's a ledge five pitches up, but all those pitches are like over 50 meters, so you're almost at about halfway up the route and there's a good ledge. So yeah, I think they may all be five 12 stacked on top of each other up to this ledge. So that's a big day by the time you haul your stuff. So we. Camped out there and played some chess and drank some wine, and ended up calling Pete actually and talking to him. Oh, okay. Sean: So that was fun looking for beta or what? Rich: Oh no, just to shoot the shit. I think yeah, this is probably, 15 years after. Pete and I had been there. Sean: Oh, crazy. Rich: Yeah, no, it would've been and then yeah finished the next day and wrapped down. So it was fun to get back there. It's a beautiful line, just again it's just this striking prowl up the middle of the formation, so that, that was pretty cool to be able to go and touch it. Yeah. Yeah. Sean: What it makes me think of is it's. It's cool as you develop as a climber to, and maybe this is more so in the first few years when you're just get, you're just figuring things out. And I remember some of my early climbing was in the Rockies and that was a climate like 5, 8, 5, 9 level maybe five tens if the right one presented itself. And I was climbing at this cliff called Barrier Bluffs. And I remember looking over at just the next corner over and the sky was. Climbing a super thin finger crack. It looked just heinous. Like that looks impossible. Placing all his gear going up, and not too many years later, I didn't do that route particularly, but it becomes within your comfort zone. I think that's, it's just such a neat process. Rich: Yeah, it, and it's interesting, like when things strike you, like you get inspired by something and it's often a photo. I found like photos from old mags would be really inspiring. They make you want to travel to an area. I remember like the. Inspiration for wanting to check out the desert was certainly like inspired probably by like old Jim Thornburg photos or something, that type of thing. Cool. Yeah. That doesn't happen to me so much anymore, but back when, like in the era of climbing magazines, I found that was like a real thing, Sean: what motivates me and you and probably everybody is find the line that looks amazing. I want to climb that. And then you can sort out like, what's the grade? Or even if it doesn't even, it matters less when you're stoked to do it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Rich: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I think like photos in guidebooks have a big influence that way. If it's a cool shot, it makes you get drawn to that. But certainly I can. Have been really drawn to roots just aesthetically that I knew nothing about, but you walk by and you're like, all of a sudden it just strikes you in some way. Even if it's not a classic route in somebody else's mind, it may be in your mind. Sean: Is that the motivation for you? Like I've heard you say a number of times, like you don't really like starred ratings and guidebooks. what's your thoughts on that? Rich: They're inherently subjective and I think they have a place, and I wouldn't say I don't like them in the sense that I use them and I, you go to a new area and you're gonna rely on them. But I think they're also limiting. So it's kinda like this twofold thing where, it draws people to certain areas and then other things get ignored. And and so you tend to go to the roots, that. Are more traveled. They have more chalk, they may have more people. They may be soft for the grade things that we all but ultimately that's safe and it's gonna be a good tip. Yeah. They may not give you the experience that is the most memorable. And they may not be the most unique, they could be, they got super, quality roots, but there's other things because of their popularity that also detract from them. Sean: Yeah. like the smell of feces.? Rich: Yeah. I don't know. It is a bit limiting. I just think you have to be careful and you have to like you're saying, ideally if you can keep, an open mind in terms of what actually. When you're on at a site at arag, keep an open mind in terms of what you find interesting looking. Yeah. And try not to maybe just follow the guidebook. Sean: Yeah. It's weird. What are your thoughts on grades? Sometimes I feel like you limit yourself by thinking the grade means something. That it's concrete and that, like you're on a route. It's okay, this is at the limit of my abilities. I should be falling here. Or if it's way below your abilities, like I shouldn't be falling. It's a weird, Rich: yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I know my hardest. Climbs have sometimes been when I didn't know the grades, like Boulder problems in particular. You just try it and you kinda let go of the expectations. Yeah. And yeah, I mean it's like this necessary evil in a way, grades, but it's also the draw of doing first ASC offenses. Yeah, I was just gonna say, you get to, yeah, nobody's told you what it is and what it is, and you're just exploring Yeah. And having a more of an open mind and yeah, that's, Sean: so you've put up a number of. New roots and enjoyed that experience of discovery and cleaning and scrubbing, sometimes bolting. Yeah. Any favorite roots that you've put up that other people should know about so that they can enjoy it? Rich: Yeah. I think a lot of the roots I put up are like worth doing. Not all of them get. Much attention. I think a bunch of them probably haven't seen repeat a sense, but it might, be a reflection of some of the things we're talking about. Like maybe they don't subscribe to what people have accepted as being, a standard quality route at that time. But I guess a couple routes that I've done recently that I do think are a good quality that. Would by most people's standards be still good quality in that they're like, it sounds like you have low standards. They're like typical, like fully bolted roots. Yeah. With good movement. Consistent movement. Interesting. Cruxes, cool positioning. Sean: What's this route? Rich: No, like the two, two roots I did at Gibraltar last year, think those are quality roots, like by anybody's standards, like relative to other roots in Nova Scotia. Those are, I think we should promote those. Sean: I, I when you were developing those, I was playing on. One of them on a top rope or we No, you were blaming me. I can't remember. Or maybe I, no, I was solo top rope. And anyways, it was the movement was amazing. And, I'm I'm gonna blame my height for a section. I couldn't quite get through it for a face climb. Rich: Yeah. It's reach, but Sean: it's absolutely gorgeous. Rich: Oh yeah, it's beautiful rock. It's Sean: so What's that? What's that one called? Rich: Oh, Gibraltar Stretch. Oh, yes. Yeah, that's a good one. That's a good one. But the root next to it, the ette. I don't know which one's better, but they're both very different, but they're both in terms of Yeah, they're equal, I think. Nice. Yeah. You played on the ette too, didn't you? Sean: Very briefly. Yeah. That's a really cool one. And that the corner. Oh yeah, that's Gibralter straight. Yeah. There you go. Which I have not climbed Rich: yet. That's an awesome route too. Very different style. Yeah, totally. That's a classic I think that doesn't get cl climbed. Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah. Sean: Any other routes that are favorites of yours in the province that maybe you didn't necessarily put up or that you would recommend for people to, to have a go and have an experience on? Oh, Rich: man. Without dying, of course. Yeah, no, there's tons of good ones. Hard to know where to start. Unfortunately lost poise is closed, that, is a pretty by anywhere in the world. I think that's a good route. Yeah. Sean: That was a route that Sean Willett put up, probably early nineties, at a place called Neverland on Paces Lake. But unfortunately it's on private land and yeah, it's close to climbing. And, we're all respecting that. But it was a, yeah, it was a great line. Rich: Yeah, it's a great loss. Yeah. Sean: Yeah. It had a glued on holds not new holds reinforced, but reinforced Zika. Holds, which I thought was pretty neat. Pretty neat. Yeah. 'cause it was like, Sean Willett put that root up and tons of. Awesome lines. Like I love that guy's roots. Yeah. But he was pushing beyond what was the standard approach back in those days, which was largely full on tra or maybe you banging a pin and he was like bolting stuff, which was. A next step and then adding glue to some holes, which is oh my God. Rich: But he was doing it all. He was also putting up cards. He was doing everything. Run out tra roots or clean t tra roots. He would Sean: yeah. Rich: That I, yeah, I respect that about him. It wasn't like a one style thing. It was like, Sean: no, he could do everything. And you, I'm hoping to get a chance to. Chat with him on one of these. Oh, that'd be podcasts. Yeah. That'd be awesome. Yeah. I would love, yeah. I'm still climbing his roots, oh, decades. Oh man. For sure. I've probably, I've definitely climbed him more than he has. It was, Rich: He had huge contributions to the climbing here. Yeah. Yeah. Sean: Amazing. So you didn't, okay lost boys, but that's out of circulation. Oh, okay. What would you recommend that people can actually get on Rich: yeah. Dr. Funkenstein that you put up. Yeah. That's a pretty awesome route. Cool. Yeah, I think that's really good. And the one right next to it, PhD, a lot of the things that Columbus, I think are quality. They don't have to be like on the harder end, but just, they're fun, good gear. I can't remember the names of most of them, yeah. Yeah. What are some other ones? Oh, you know what? An area that I've only been there a couple times with you is Shiprock. Oh, yeah. Comfortably numb and uncomfortable Bum, those wonderful names, those roots when I got on them. Keal Keel, hall Keel, my favorite. Yeah. They still seem like some of the best roots in the province, like in terms of just quality rock and movement and good gear and Sean: those roots, they didn't really need any cleaning whatsoever. Yeah, they're right on the coast. Battered by waves and salt. And those are good ones. Rich: Oh yeah. They, I, yeah. I love those roots with a sinker, like cracks with it just open up in the back for, Sean: The, I've told you the story, but comfortably numb that, that was, I think, the first route that was led there. And Bonnie and I were on a kayak trip. It was a foggy day and I had all my gear and I had to, I wanted to climb something on Shiprock, so out to the boat. You start from lamb, but I. Got, got the gear moving and then first 15 feet of the route, I got two locker finger locks. Yeah. In, and both hands went numb. Not the hands, but my fingers went totally numb, and it was like they stayed numb for months. Rich: Did you pinch the nerves because yeah. Yeah, because the jams were so good. Yeah. Yeah. They're so Sean: good. I can picture those we're really selling track that you're talking about Rich: because they narrow the constricts, it's like a triangle that opens up and, oh, yeah. You can get a yeah, something that you can cut your feet on and you'd be fine. And there's Sean: one, I remember one hold, there's a triangular so this face is it's a very sheer, it's basically vertical, very smooth face, a little bit of friction on it, but it's like a fault line or something. It's just a nice cut. And then these holds, these cracks holds are, go directly into the cliff. And there's a loose little rock. It's like a triangular little piece that you can slot in and out of the face. It doesn't pull out, it's solid. But you could actually pull it out like an inch. Yeah, like an inch. Yeah. Just to get the right foothold, yeah. On it. Do you ever using that? Oh yeah. I Rich: do not. You talk about it. I don't know if I knew how to use it the right way, but I think you pointed out afterwards that it's like a secret foot. Yeah. Like you slide it out, you use it and then you can kick it back in. Yeah. Yeah. That was pretty funny. Sean: I'm curious about training and yeah what are your thoughts on training? How do you approach keeping your game up for climbing roots or even adventures when you go traveling? Rich: I don't know how to train. I tried to dabble in it at times. Yeah. Like I've hang boarded and, actually, the one time I trained was leading up to the second Mexico trip, and I did a lot of traverses and I also hang board, and it was actually the only time I did anything that was structured. That followed like progression, adding time and weight and things like that. So that was, didn't Sean: you felt better as a result? Like you saw Gaines? Rich: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think so. It was over 10 years ago and I can't say I've ever trained since really. But I have done some hang boarding. Yeah. I'm not the right Sean: guy to ask about treatment. I know. Which is funny. Yeah. We're both equally ignorant on the subject, although you did, you got me hang boarding. A little bit over. Did I like two winters ago you were leading up to a trip to France, I think. Oh, Rich: that's right. Yep. And then who did you do the trip with? Matt Walker. Yeah, Matt Sean: Walker. And so you had the three of it, you signed me up to be part of this Rich: Yeah. Sean: Hang board thing and I did it. That's true. I did it probably six or seven times. Rich: So I'm hesitant to call it training in a sense because it was the goal there was just to motivate us to do something. You know what I mean? So it didn't like when I think training, I think it's gotta be like, have some progression, have a goal, be somewhat measurable. Like it was, this was basically like you gotta hang off something and do a few pullups each week or else you're gonna own beer. Because it was, there was a beer calculator, right? So if you missed a session and I did a session, I got a beer. So that, yeah, I think Sean: I owed you a lot of beer after that. I don't know if I paid up on that though. Rich: That's right. Matt did too. Matt paid up though. He Oh, did he paid up on, on the trip? Yeah, Sean: actually I think he bought me a nice meal and a few beers. I said, we'll call it even after this or something. Yeah. And part of the reason I was asking about training is, and what impresses me about you is that. Oftentimes you don't have enough time to train or climb much, but you're always game to go. Tackle some big adventure going to the Verdun on that trip you did with math. Yeah. You did a bit of hang boarding, but you hadn't done much climbing. And those are pretty big, probably pretty scary roots. And you're, you've done that a few places, I find you just, I'm gonna go up the rainbow wall, I, or try it. I didn't do that. You went where'd you go now? My eyes are bigger than my, oh, you looked at it and ran away. Fingers. Rich: Yeah. No thanks man. Yeah. I don't know, like I wouldn't want. Lack of, getting out regularly and feeling good to be a reason to not go, try something. Yeah, I feel like a lot of climbing, like when you develop a base, you can pull off more than you might otherwise think you can if you're in the right head space. And that's I struggled with this recently too, 'cause I, if you're not climbing and then you try to go do something, you're probably not gonna be confident, and I noticed that, say on the last trip I did in November. With my buddy Ira still climbed Okay, but like hesitant a little bit. Whatever. So I, I see often like the training that I do, like hanging off the hang board or, whatever you can do, it's as much as the physical, I think it gets you more mentally prepared. You have been doing what you can to be get ready. Yeah. Even if that might be a hang board session every few days, if that's all you can fit in 'cause of other commitments. You've done everything you can, you're, you can feel, you can still feel that, I don't know what the gains are physically from doing like. Six hand board handboard sessions in but probably negative. I dunno. But mentally I think it still has like some effect, and on your confidence. I Sean: love that. I haven't really thought of it like that, but I think you're bang on. It's like you clear out the cobwebs and remember that you can do this stuff. 'cause I find every season I'm like, oh, I haven't climbed in ages. I gotta get used to placing gear and all that. But it comes back really quickly, way more quick than you fear it will, and you just push the boat out and see what you can do. I think part of that for you too, like you're, you won an adventure it seems like. So that's not gonna stop you where you're not a hundred percent prepared. Whereas a lot of times I'm a little bit more cautious, like a, oh, I'm not gonna try that today, but. I've seen you try some stuff and perhaps you shouldn't. Rich: I know. I think I'm pretty cautious, yeah. Being a dad and everything, but Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. More so now than in the twenties. But that's, I think that's pretty common. Wisdom. Wisdom. Probably less testosterone, broken body. Sean: Yeah. Rich: Yeah. Sean: All those things. Any any scary experiences that you've had climbing over the years that stick in your mind? Rich: Yeah. Nothing went over. Over the top really. But yeah, I've been gripped lots of times. I remember one of the first times I met you. Maybe you're remembering this. I do reremember. I think I remember. Okay. All right. But what I remember is I got to go climb with Steve Punchin for yeah, A couple season, another legend. Oh, legend. Oh, big bold roots. Yeah. Steve's great. Yep. Yeah. Put up a lot of roots and yeah, really talented climber. But anyway, so I was a newbie and somehow I lucked into being able to go out with Steve and yeah, we came, became pseudo partners for. A season at least. And anyways, Steve would pick the day and I was just along for the ride, jump in his car or whatever. And so he took me out to first phase. I can't remember if it's my first time there or not, but it was, I remember being, it was a cold day. It was probably late October or something, maybe it was early November. And. Steve recommends the route that I should go up. First Nations Sean: Don't ever trust what Steve Punchin tells you to do. Yeah. Anyway yeah, I remember you came along at some point. Maybe I was on the route and I was on emotional vampires. Oh, okay. Or maybe, yeah. Yeah, Rich: I think so. Was I climbing next to you then? Sean: Yeah. You were like. 30 feet along. So I got a nice bird's eye view of the action. Yeah. So continue. Rich: There's not much to tell besides it's a hard route. I am like, it's really hard so grift and don't really know what I'm doing to the degree that I like, scare myself off the root, like I, I remember at one point I was trying to mantle up on this ledge. This is what I remember. Yeah. And my feet cut and I just like. Total slam down, like straight armed. But, Sean: And also, for the listener, there's just, the gear is Yeah. It's below your feet, right? I think like it's, what was it, A small nut in a little angle crack or something. Yeah. So you're, you come up to this ledge, which is maybe a foot or foot and a half deep. You get two hands on it, but it's not great. Yeah. And your feet are non-existent. Yeah. And you need to mantle left to it. And then I see you try to do this. Isn't it fun to laugh at other people's mis Oh yeah. You try to you try to mantle up and then you shoot down, you fall back, but you catch yourself and yeah. Did you let out a blood curdling scream or, I Rich: can't remember, man. I just remember like being gripped in out my element that I like, I couldn't let go, yeah. And I shouldn't have been on that route. But I think I got to the top. You got up Sean: Ed, Rich: just out of like desperation. Sean: I was probably the third ascent actually. Rich: Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's kinda like one of those things that's somebody said, you gotta do this or you die, then you're like, you'll. Find a way, Sean: and that's how I felt. This is what it's like climbing with Rich Lappe or maybe more so Steve Bunch, Steve Bay playing on Steve. Yeah, I climbed with him for a lot of years and had some great times. Yeah, for sure. So that's a scary, that's a scary moment for sure. What about any feelings of just amazement and happiness? Climbing. Rich: Oh, like in the zone type of thing? Yeah, Sean: whatever. Whatever comes from, I'm sure. Rich: I mean they're what's the word? Rare, but it's what gets you addicted, I think. It's that sense of like flow. So yeah. I've been lucky enough when you're red pointing something, or even on sighting something that, is maybe close to your level, but totally doable and you can just. Be into it and not think about other things. Yeah. Do you remember Sean: any specific roots that I'm trying, man, I wish I, yeah, I'm putting you on the spot. It's all, yeah, no, Rich: I like to think that you get into that on most routes, but I don't know if it really stands out. I don't know. Has it been a route that you've seen me on that you thought that, damn, he's in the zone. Damn, that guy. Sean: Damn. I hope he remembers this. He's connected. Yeah. No, not at all. I don't think so. No. Yeah, I just remember emotional, that's whatever that, that's probably Rich: the more the norm of my existence, like when I'm climbing. Yeah. Sean: This has been great. Thanks for doing this with me. What about bouldering? I'm thinking like roots and bouldering. I think you've put a lot of effort into developing up the Muscat, Abbit Valley. It feels like that's where the center of your efforts have been and I don't even know all the boulders that you've messed around on up there, but I know there's some quality problems. Any memories of development of those spots or, yeah. History of that kind of effort. Rich: Yeah, man. Certainly, yeah, explored quite a bit for bouldering out in Musca, Abbit Valley, like you say. Lucky enough to move to the Eastern shore when, there had been some development out in Musca Abbit, but not a lot. And some of it. Therion and Todd and others put up, stuff over the years that I had known about. But there was a lot to, to do. Whole areas to be found and discovered. So I was lucky enough to have those, opportunities when, when it was meaningful for me and when I had the time. Yeah. I love bouldering by myself for sure. It was like a nice outlet, like I like being in the woods by myself and it's fun, that process of un uncovering things, but with friends too, like me and you probably spent quite, quite a few days, I imagine, on, on different boulders and Craig Stamp and discovered some areas with Sean White about Luke. Luke. Luke, yeah. What was Sean: his last name? Luke. He's out west now. Luke. Luke, Rich: man. Luke. Sean: Luke. Luke? Yeah. He put out a little beautiful little guidebook for bouldering at the north end of Mus. Rich: Oh, Jesse's diner. Just oh. Oh, no. Different area. Do you remember Sean: his, he was just intricate drawings and everything was gorgeous. I don't know where It's Gibraltar. Rich: Gibraltar. Gibraltar, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He also did a nice, beautiful thing that he never made public for Jesse's Diner as well. Sean: Oh. Top secret? I Rich: don't think, I think Sean: he Rich: was just, or just private? No, I think he meant to make it available, but never, just never released it. Maybe partly because I had some suggested edits and that maybe I was just being too annoyed that he just decided it's not worth it. Sean: Yeah. Rich: Yeah. Sean: Nice. Rich: Yeah. No. Yeah. Luke. Yeah, he was great to climb with. Yep. We did a bunch of stuff out there. Yeah. A lot of it's not documented or it was documented in, half-ass ways. Somebody may have a copy of something, but Yeah. Some good roots. I wouldn't say it was like the same quality as probably the LOC, but there's some. I, I don't really know Sean: what's that. There's, I haven't done a ton of those problems, but there's a nice traversing left to right traverse. It's, yeah, I think it's gorgeous. Rich: That is, I would say that's the best bowler problem I've ever developed in terms of quality? Yeah, like independent of grades and stuff. So that's a Highliner and Sean White and I found that and climbed it. Probably 20 years ago now. And even though we never really documented it that well, like people have found out about it, and I think a lot of people have sought it out because it is such a quality line, just aesthetically this beautiful kind of overhanging, slanting, traverse, crack with comfortable holds and really fun. Yeah. It's Sean: 20 feet long or something. Yeah it's 25 or 30 even. It's. Rich: If it was in, the, Bishop, it would still be a classic kind of thing. Oh it's awesome. Yeah. Sean: So let's yeah, I think people should hunt that out. Rich: Oh yeah, that's a good one. That's a good one. And I think it's around like V five, V six, like it's a pretty accessible Yeah. Grade for folks, so most people would be able to enjoy it and would, regardless of kind of what level they're bouldering. Yeah, that's a fun one. Yeah, definitely proud of that. I haven't been on it for years, but, yeah, I should go climb it soon. Yeah, Sean: it's a classic. Rich: Yeah. Sean: Cool man. What's next? What's next for you climbing wise or otherwise? Rich: I got some other climbing wise, I got some other local projects. My climbing and climbing aspirations are pretty limited. I don't really have any huge objectives like. Internationally or something like that, big trips but I'm quite happy to find my windows to go seek solace on the cliffs and with good friends, where I can I. Convince them to join me for a day now, Sean: looking at you. Why are you looking at me? Yeah. Rich: Yeah. So there's some projects that I'd like to develop that would be bolted, in the Musca Valley area. And I'd like to repeat some of the lines that I've always thought would be cool to do for different reasons, either they. They I'm interested in the history, like roots that you've done. Like insomnia, chaos theory. I'd like to do those seem like just like important ticks for me personally. Oh, cool. And ones that I think would be ni nice challenges, I'd like to get back up to Cape Clear, but we'll see. Seem to be doing more fishing these days than climbing, so I don't know. You got, that's the be that's the Sean: beginning of the end, I'm pretty sure. Rich: Yeah. I always said I get into fly fishing when I got old, and now it's it's like it's happening. It's happening. Yeah. But it's fun. Yeah. I don't have a lot, like a huge tick list, but I have a tick list of a 10 roots that I got my sights on that'll I'll pick away at as I get windows. Sean: That sounds like you're still motivated. Rich: Oh yeah. Sean: Cool, man. If you run outta roots, you can always climb here in the icebox. I appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. And I appreciate you joining me for this. Yeah, no, this adventure, this chat. So thanks a lot. Thanks, Cassie. Yeah. Cool, man. All right. That was fun. Thanks again, rich for helping me with this first episode. Thanks also to Nova Scotia for making this podcast a reality and a big shout out. To my sponsor's, east Peak Climbing and seven Base Bouldering. I hope everyone enjoyed this conversation. Look forward to seeing you next time. Rich: Five 11 C. There's three of them and I suspect there's probably more than that. You mean like at that Craig? Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Fun and Sign Insomnia and Chaos theory. I've got a lot of 11 Cs Sean: out there. Rich: Not a lot. There's, you were like, that was like the five nine for you. Like for the guys back in the eighties. He's like seventies. So we'll call it C. Yeah.